Commercial 3 phase supplies and changing supplier

beefster

I have just moved home into a small holding which has a 3 phase supply and I want to swap supplier. My Grandmother lived here for many years and i doubt she ever changed so it is prob on an extortionate rate at present.....

Is it as straight forward as it is for the average home?? It may be listed as commercial.... not sure as yet?

Ta

misterbarlow

yeah should work the same as domestic, like you said just check what tariff its actually on and for what use...

[Deleted User]

If its still listed as commercial you may be in a fixed one or two year contract which the suppliers automatically renew unless you give them 3 months notice of termination.

chanz4

On your bills it should have 01 for residential next to the mpan, if not 02 for business

Terrylw1

It doesn't matter whether you are in a commercial or domestic contract, what matters is the tax rules. If its purely a dwelling, you can only be on a domestic contract unless it forms part of a group where their are commercial properties.

Farms have been converted a lot over the past 20 years into domestic dwellings and it can bring some big problems.

If your supply is shared to several different customer dwellings, re-post as it changes some things and I'll post more.

In terms of supply at 3 phase, its meaningless. What matters is the metering. If your supply is attached to a single phase meter, you can switch anywhere as these are the correct domestic meters.

If you have a 3 phase meter, you could have problems. 3 phase metering is not set up to operate as a domestic in all cases. This would cause problems in switching as the new supplier can't properly register you. They may have to change your meter (if you don't need a 3 phase load anymore), "fudge" your registration record in a non compliant way just to get you through or they can apply for domestics to be added to your meter combination.

As Chanz says, you should be Profile Class (PC) 01 or 02, but only PC3+ (business) is available for most if not all of these meters.

However, don't let this discourage you. Make it the suppliers problem!

Check your bill as Chanz says and check if your meter says single or 3 phase on it. Then re-post for more info.

Dealt with loads of these over the years.

spiro

chanz4 wrote: »

On your bills it should have 01 for residential next to the mpan, if not 02 for business

Wrong, 01 & 02 are domestic 03 and above are non domestic.

utility_csa

spiro wrote: »

Wrong, 01 & 02 are domestic 03 and above are non domestic.

Yes, but i know for a fact thousands for mpans are incorrectly registered on mpas / ecoes with the wrong PC. Setting the wrong SSC can change the PC and I know for a fact some suppliers do this.

Anyways to OP. Post a picture of the meter / supply could be easy for a few of us here to give a little more advice.

Terrylw1

utility_csa wrote: »

Yes, but i know for a fact thousands for mpans are incorrectly registered on mpas / ecoes with the wrong PC. Setting the wrong SSC can change the PC and I know for a fact some suppliers do this.

Anyways to OP. Post a picture of the meter / supply could be easy for a few of us here to give a little more advice.

Try tens of thousands and beyond.

Luckily since there will be no supporting D0150 in the DC, they can't map any supplier D0052...so the DA bounces they back on D0095's for the NHH market. The numbers of these has been really high in the past but Elexon have focussed on this area every year for at least 8 years I know of.

Suppliers have nasty habit of "fudging" data and MPAS has no validation beyond dates and valid MDD combinations with these cases. So, for a 3 phase the supplier may be knackered on the MDD front so choose to be non compliant by leaving DC knackered. Then no readings ever make it into settlement and they settle on EAC's until someone notices it years later.

There have been thousands of farm conversions where tge supply was never addressed. Developers chose to do it as cheaply as possible and avoided the correct route of new connections. This has left farms with ct meters they don't need, hence all the data is on business in error. If the demand is low, they can go back to single phase but there are cases of farm conversions where an estate has been built using the ct. They are a nightmare as there is nothing you can do to correct them and the MOP must reflect the SSC correctly.

utility_csa

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Try tens of thousands and beyond.

Luckily since there will be no supporting D0150 in the DC, they can't map any supplier D0052...so the DA bounces they back on D0095's for the NHH market. The numbers of these has been really high in the past but Elexon have focussed on this area every year for at least 8 years I know of.

Suppliers have nasty habit of "fudging" data and MPAS has no validation beyond dates and valid MDD combinations with these cases. So, for a 3 phase the supplier may be knackered on the MDD front so choose to be non compliant by leaving DC knackered. Then no readings ever make it into settlement and they settle on EAC's until someone notices it years later.

There have been thousands of farm conversions where tge supply was never addressed. Developers chose to do it as cheaply as possible and avoided the correct route of new connections. This has left farms with ct meters they don't need, hence all the data is on business in error. If the demand is low, they can go back to single phase but there are cases of farm conversions where an estate has been built using the ct. They are a nightmare as there is nothing you can do to correct them and the MOP must reflect the SSC correctly.

But even if you have a low demand CT system you can still be registered correctly on the NHH system and pay more "residential" rates. I would roughly guess 30% of CT meters I deal with are on a E7 tariff. Not too hard to register as E7 151 (or dno valid equivalent for pc 01,02) system side to set it back and not have to deal with a whole meter exchange.

Not sure on the D52 & D95 - remember I work from mop side so never encounter these ;p!

Also, have you heard what LBSL do where they cant get MTD from previous mop/supplier. How its even allowed by TAA / Elexon is unbelievable.

Terrylw1

utility_csa wrote: »

But even if you have a low demand CT system you can still be registered correctly on the NHH system and pay more "residential" rates. I would roughly guess 30% of CT meters I deal with are on a E7 tariff. Not too hard to register as E7 151 (or dno valid equivalent for pc 01,02) system side to set it back and not have to deal with a whole meter exchange.

Not sure on the D52 & D95 - remember I work from mop side so never encounter these ;p!

Also, have you heard what LBSL do where they cant get MTD from previous mop/supplier. How its even allowed by TAA / Elexon is unbelievable.

The problem is that if the SSC is PC3+ the supplier needs the MOP to change the SSC. The supplier can get the PC added into MDD if they are prepared to wait a couple months though but this route seems unpopular in these cases...but the DNO will support it as long as they have a LLFC already so you can attach the new combination to it.

D0095's only happen where the DC and MPAS data is out of line ir there is a missing consumption period in the DA system caused by the DC. So, if the suppliers fudges it but only updates MPAS, this rejection is registered.

Which process are we talking with LBSL? I know when they entered the market they suffered with very poor data due to EDF's poor data which they didn't cleanse or even send.

I think with LBSL you will also find some practices are based on agreement with a contracting supplier...they are very obliging! If they are using a dummy reference, it wouldn't surprise me to find a certain supplier behind it. LBSL in cleansing in the past did visits FOC to get the data corrected rather than pursue EDF.

If you're going to say they fudge the dates...that won't surprise me.

utility_csa

Terrylw1 wrote: »

The problem is that if the SSC is PC3+ the supplier needs the MOP to change the SSC. The supplier can get the PC added into MDD if they are prepared to wait a couple months though but this route seems unpopular in these cases...but the DNO will support it as long as they have a LLFC already so you can attach the new combination to it.

D0095's only happen where the DC and MPAS data is out of line ir there is a missing consumption period in the DA system caused by the DC. So, if the suppliers fudges it but only updates MPAS, this rejection is registered.

Which process are we talking with LBSL? I know when they entered the market they suffered with very poor data due to EDF's poor data which they didn't cleanse or even send.

I think with LBSL you will also find some practices are based on agreement with a contracting supplier...they are very obliging! If they are using a dummy reference, it wouldn't surprise me to find a certain supplier behind it. LBSL in cleansing in the past did visits FOC to get the data corrected rather than pursue EDF.

If you're going to say they fudge the dates...that won't surprise me.

Nope even worse with LBSL, if they cant get MTD from previous supplier or mop the set the site as de-energised. Causing loads of problems for next mop. for some reason they wont visit site if they cant get MTD so god knows how they are billing... :rotfl: thats mop and supplier sides of them...