AOE - Council Tax

kellyw29

All,

I need some serious help and I am not sure where to start. I got in a bit of a mess with my council tax at a previous address and as a result owe the council £1390 in unpaid council tax. I know I owe this money but let me make it clear I have never received any documentation from the council in regards to this

Last week I received my wage slip and see that the council had removed £536 from my wages as an attachment of earnings order I was not aware of.

After speaking to the council, who were as always very rude and unhelpful I managed to get them to cancel one of the attachments as it was for the current year but I am not living at that property anymore.

I spoke to them numerous times last week and was advised that the one attachment will stay in place and continue to remove money until the bill was settled (this was only for one years council tax so another moth and a bit and it will be cleared) and I was told that as long as I set up a payment plan to clear the rest no further action would be taken and no further aoe's will be set up unless I default on the agreement, which I accepted. I then received an email from the council in response to a query I sent in before I had spoken to someone and they advised me the issue had been dealt with and 2 attachments now sit on my account that are running concurrently

This is where the problem comes in, there should only be 1 AOE on my wages however when the other one was removed they have made a new one!!!!

On top of this I took an advance on my wages to cover the shortfall this month under the assumption I can pay this back in august as at the time the AOE would have been cleared however with a second one added I am looking at over £700 coming out of my august wages.

I spoke to the manager at the council and told him what had happened and what the recovery manager had told me. They are now flat out denying the conversation took place ( I told them specifically to listen to the recorded phone calls, to which they told me the calls are not recorded.....), are adament the second AOE will stay in place despite the fact I cannot afford it, they tell me the notes on my account state I was offered a payment plan when I spoke to them on 11th and I apparently refused this (never happened) the second new AOE was set up on the 12th... the next day

Obviously I wouldnt do this as I know what would happen if I did. I am now in a position where they are taking money from my wages I simply cannot afford. I am the sole earner in a house of 4 people, 2 of which are small children

The council just dont seem to care, they are only interested in getting their money and couldnt give a stuff that I wont be able to eat or heat my home...

not only have they done the exact opposite of what I asked them to do they also lied about the conversation and have put me in a worse position that I was in the first place!

What do I do ???!

Tixy

The second AOE - is this for the current year (12-13) debt again?

Have you asked for copies of the liability orders they have for your council tax (is it definitely just 2)? - and a breakdown of the amounts owed for each year?

McKneff

Maybe your OH could look for a job to help out.

kellyw29

its for more than two years, the current AOE's are for 11/12 and 10/11 I then owe around £200 for 09/10

I was more concerned with the sheer lies the council are telling, as I took the advance because the council told me that only one AOE was going to continue but then they have made on anyway.

I appreciate my OH taking a job to help but in the current economic climate with limited or no experience the likelyhood of him gaining employment anytime soon is unrealistic.

Can I not force the council to do what I said and to set up a payment plan for the remaining amount, as all I have done is act on what they have told me and then they have changed it and lied, I also lifted this from their website which outlines practices when recovering debt

The recovery practices and the revised code are operated within the broad framework of the Council Tax office. Officers use these and aim to raise payers awareness of procedures and available assistance by:

<LI style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3" class=MsoNormal>

Actively encouraging payers with problems to contact the Council early in the recovery process. <LI style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3" class=MsoNormal>Providing information, help and advice. <LI style="COLOR: red; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3" class=MsoNormal>Readily accepting alternative payment arrangements including consolidating other arrears. <LI style="COLOR: red; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3" class=MsoNormal>Acknowledging and respecting debtors obligations to their dependants. <LI style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo3" class=MsoNormal>Aiming to achieve a fair balance between the claims of competing creditors and recognising debtors need to maintain an acceptable standard of living.
[*]Providing and making widely available clear and concise information about the statutory sanctions which the authority will use in the recovery process and what these mean to defaulters in terms of costs, etc.

They certainly are NOT readily accepting alternative payment arrangements or taking into consideration my obligation to dependents.

HappyMJ

How much do you earn? To deduct £536 a month you must be earning a fair amount. The normal deduction rate is 17% on £2,020 and 50% of any excess income so by my calculation you are on £2,405 per month. Then deducting the £536 leaves you with £1,869... Is that correct?

Do not speak with council as have you have found out calls are not recorded. You must deal with them in writing.

kellyw29

I dont earn that much I wish! I earn around 1700 a month after tax, first AOE taken at 17% for 290ish and second at whatever the appropriate % is after the first which worked out to around £240 something

this left me with 1,180, my rent alone is £500 a month, plus food/internet/sky/gas/electric/current council tax/couple of loans/ travelling expenses/kids lunches etc etc the list goes on and on and on

left me with about £40 quid

Tixy

So they have liability orders for all 3 years of arrears? This is a bit different to it being the current year debt.

Which 2 years did the 2 original AOEs relate to?
and when they cancelled one - which one did they cancel?
and the new AOE that was set up - which year did that relate to.

Unfortunately for you if there are 3 years with arrears then its likely they will go for the maximum number 2 AOEs. And that when the first is paid off the 3rd one will then also be taken by deduction from your earnings.

The maximum level of deductions under a AOE is set according to your wages - but as long as they have not taken more than that I am unsure that you can do anything to change what they take.

As this is a priority outgoing perhaps you'll need to have a look through your other expenditure items to see where you could save money/get things cheaper / cut things out. If you are struggling to find areas you can reduce - you might want to post your statement of affairs on here - as posters are really good at finding savings that you could make.

Aside from that you may find you need to default on non-priority items (such as your loan) whilst you pay off these debts.

kellyw29

Im not sure exactly what years they are for etc. I know that at least one of the 2 orders they set up was for the current bill but was cancelled because I was not liable for it as I no longer reside at the property, they took the money deducted for this and put it onto the other so as it stands £536 has been paid on one order (with roughtly £200 still to pay on this) a second order has now been raised for £524.40 which is for 10/11 and then a further outstanding balance of £200 for 09/10

I dont see how I can really cut back, yes I can default on my loans as they are provident but isnt this just going to come back and bite me in the a** later as I would need to default for at least 3 months

Also I wholeheartedly appreciate this is my own faul (although the council havent exactly helped up until now allowing me to get in this mess) but I also dont go to work just to survive, I could be a venefit scrounger to get my and have a lie in every day, I come to work because I enjoy earning my own money but also to provide a nice life for me and my family, cutting back and basically just surviving is in direct contradiction.

I dont want to come across as an !!!-hat but I really do resent coming to work for nothing.

pmlindyloo

Tixy wrote: »

So they have liability orders for all 3 years of arrears? This is a bit different to it being the current year debt.

Which 2 years did the 2 original AOEs relate to?
and when they cancelled one - which one did they cancel?
and the new AOE that was set up - which year did that relate to.

Unfortunately for you if there are 3 years with arrears then its likely they will go for the maximum number 2 AOEs. And that when the first is paid off the 3rd one will then also be taken by deduction from your earnings.

The maximum level of deductions under a AOE is set according to your wages - but as long as they have not taken more than that I am unsure that you can do anything to change what they take.

As this is a priority outgoing perhaps you'll need to have a look through your other expenditure items to see where you could save money/get things cheaper / cut things out. If you are struggling to find areas you can reduce - you might want to post your statement of affairs on here - as posters are really good at finding savings that you could make.

Aside from that you may find you need to default on non-priority items (such as your loan) whilst you pay off these debts.

If you are really struggling financially then it may be possible to do something about it but it would only be at the discretion of the council.

You could contact CAB or Payplan (0800 2802816) for further advice.

The fact that you were unaware that an AOE had been granted may be helpful. However, you should have been sent lots of paperwork and notification that a liability order was being sought etc etc. Did you not have your post forwarded from your previous address?

Having said that it is likely to be argued that you were aware that you had CT arrears and as this is a priority debt should have been more proactive yourself about doing something.

Not having a go at you just trying to be realistic.

So, you can seek further advice and try to get the payments reduced or reduce your expenditure/increase your income and deal with the debt.

My personal view is that you would not be regarded as vulnerable or on a very low income so the AOE would stand and you need to be looking at ways of reducing your outgoings.

Why not post your SOA on here as suggested and get some help? The folks here are excellent at giving support and ideas for saving money.

I know you are cross at the way you appear to have been treated but CT arrears are a priority debt and those in the department have heard the story of 'not received paperwork' a thousand times. They are only human and whilst I do not agree that they should be rude, it must be very difficult not to be judgemental at times (happens on these forums all the time!:))

Tixy

A lot of people first posting on here also feel there are no arears then can cut back - but people will often be able to find fairly painless areas they can make savings to start - things like switching to cheaper suppliers so saving money, slightly changing grocery shopping habits etc.
And only if they are not sufficent to keep up with priority items might you then need to consider cutting out luxuries and things you would rather keep (eg the sky perhaps).

It certainly won't be fun, cutting back never is -but from the sounds of the amount they are taking compared to the level of debt - its only going to be for a few months. After that you can get back on track and not have this hanging over you.

HappyMJ

kellyw29 wrote: »

I dont earn that much I wish! I earn around 1700 a month after tax, first AOE taken at 17% for 290ish and second at whatever the appropriate % is after the first which worked out to around £240 something

this left me with 1,180, my rent alone is £500 a month, plus food/internet/sky/gas/electric/current council tax/couple of loans/ travelling expenses/kids lunches etc etc the list goes on and on and on

left me with about £40 quid

It's 17% for all orders combined. Speak to payroll and get them to deduct the correct amount. As they have deducted too much this month they can adjust the payment next month to not deduct anything next month.

On £1,700 it should be £289 per month for all the orders.