Parking Ticket at Hospital Car Park

Oliv

Hi,

I received a parking ticket in a hospital car park last week in Manchester.

I am a doctor and don't usually work in this hospital - this was actually my very first day there - and so I could not even access the staff car park as I did not have a swipe badge to get past the barrier to it. I parked in the visitor car park instead (I didn't realise this at the time but in hindsight this was clearly marked as a visitor's car park). I opted to leave a clear note on my dashboard saying that I am a member of staff not usually working in this hospital and that I had to park somewhere. I couldn't go and find somewhere else to park as my shift was just about to start and I was the doctor covering surgical emergencies so my first duty of care is to patients and I had to be in the hospital. It would be inappropriate to go and find out exactly what I needed to do/speak to hospital security etc. as I had sick patients to look after. I also left my mobile phone number on the note out of courtesy.

I received the parking notice from the company that has been hired by the hospital to run the car park (Gemini Parking Solutions). The plastic wallet that hold the ticket inside was left open and it had been raining so a lot of the ink os smudged together and incomprehensible. The gist is I have a £60 fine which can be reduced to £25 if I pay within the first 2 weeks. Also, the car I was driving isn't actually registered to me but to someone living at my household

I have been reading posts on this forum and would like to know:
- If I write to them stating all of the above, what are my chances?
- Should I bother even responding to these scumbags?

Thanks

halibut2209

The answer to this is in the stickies and the other threads. Have a look around.

The short version is don't pay, and ignore these scammers. That's all they are. They are phishing for cash using empty threats.

SodG24

halibut2209 wrote: »

The answer to this is in the stickies and the other threads. Have a look around.

The short version is don't pay, and ignore these scammers. That's all they are. They are phishing for cash using empty threats.

Although the even shorter answer is go to Pepipoo as already advised.

Kite2010

Ignore the PPC, the loss to the landowner is zero.

rallytart

I too have been issued with a fine from Gemini Parking Solutions for having 'No Permit' on display. I was a member of hospital staff parked in a staff only hospital car park for permit holders only. You can only access the car park by means of a barrier card, only available to permit holders! My permit had dropped from view. I have provided clear evidence of my in date permit to the mentioned company. I also provided photos clearly showing the car park stating Staff Car Park, Permit Holders Only (nowhere saying permits to be displayed). Despite stating on their tickets if paid within 14 days £25 or £60 thereafter, and accounts would be put 'on hold' pending appeal, I recieved letter 1 back over 3 weeks later declining the appeal. Assuming my account had been 'on hold' I ran their automated payment line to be told I owed £60. On telephoning them, I was told my 2nd appeal letter has also been rejected, again because my permit was not valid.
I know there have been a number of similiar complaints. Has anyone actually successfully appealled one of this 'fines'??? and if so how. Many thanks

ManxRed

I think one or two appeals have worked, most don't.

However, that's not really an issue. Legally, the landowner is entitled to the financial losses incurred as a result of your heinous 'crime'. The losses to them in this case, i.e. your car having no permit, is zero.

Even if they tried to bring a case under trespass laws, you weren't trespassing, and even if you had been they would only be entitled to damages. Again, zero.

The best course of action now would be to simply ignore them, and any threatening letters they send, unless for some reason the hospital itself (not toothless Gemini) go down the road of threatening to remove your parking privileges, in which case a different decision may need to be assessed.

esmerobbo

rallytart wrote: »

I too have been issued with a fine from Gemini Parking Solutions for having 'No Permit' on display. I was a member of hospital staff parked in a staff only hospital car park for permit holders only. You can only access the car park by means of a barrier card, only available to permit holders! My permit had dropped from view. I have provided clear evidence of my in date permit to the mentioned company. I also provided photos clearly showing the car park stating Staff Car Park, Permit Holders Only (nowhere saying permits to be displayed). Despite stating on their tickets if paid within 14 days £25 or £60 thereafter, and accounts would be put 'on hold' pending appeal, I recieved letter 1 back over 3 weeks later declining the appeal. Assuming my account had been 'on hold' I ran their automated payment line to be told I owed £60. On telephoning them, I was told my 2nd appeal letter has also been rejected, again because my permit was not valid.
I know there have been a number of similiar complaints. Has anyone actually successfully appealled one of this 'fines'??? and if so how. Many thanks

Firstly its not a fine, it is a speculative invoice, don't have any more to do with them. They have no course of action you had a pass for the barrier you had a permit you owe them nothing!

Their appeal process is a sham, they are never going to allow an appeal as it cuts their income.

Stephen_Leak

It's not a fine. It's a scam.

Only councils, the police, some train operators and Transport for London can issue legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private ticketing company can't. What they issue are “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract with a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011.

All the car park owner can claim from a driver in damages for an alleged breach of a contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If it’s in a free car park or the driver paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and, therefore, an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now landmark court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012, HM Revenue & Customs vs. VCS Parking Control, Lower Tax Tribunal, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs (Appeal), Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In these cases, the judges ruled that only the car park owner can charge for parking and take alleged offenders to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is equivalent to the High Court and, therefore, its judgements set legal precedents.

There's no point in appealling to the private ticketing company. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off?

The private ticketing company, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually the same people, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable to try and intimidate you into paying.

Continue to ignore everything you get from them. Eventually, they’ll run out of empty threats and stop throwing good money after bad.

Coupon-mad

rallytart wrote: »

I too have been issued with a fine from Gemini Parking Solutions...

Nope you have not. This is not a fine, whichever way you look at it:

http://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/5isk3-hi-overstayed-berkley-precinct-car-park-ecclesall-rd.html

The Barrister on that link (no matter which PPC is involved) says ''This is a private land fine. They are unenforceable. This is not a parking fine however it may look. These companies are private firms that have no more right to punish you for the manner of your parking than your neighbour does.''

rallytart wrote: »

Has anyone actually successfully appealled one of this 'fines'??? and if so how. Many thanks

Nope, who would be that daft? This is a scam, have you missed the current threads here? Start with the SECOND from top one (ignore the top one):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

You don't continue to throw good letters after bad thinking there might be an 'appeals procedure' just because the fake PCN pretends there is! A successful 'appeal' against a fake PCN scam is only ever for one reason, a 'show-trial' if you like, to create an example to show the BPA that a PPC does allow the odd 'appeal'.

Things will be a little different after 1st October as we may well advise people to appeal any fake PCN issued after that, but only to cost PPCs money before going into ignore mode!

Mike Perkins (pie-eating PPC owner who has nothing better to do than haunt this forum) isn't happy by all accounts, about the new appeals procedure that's coming in, I believe he said summat like:

''I am myself alarmed by some of the recommendations and changes proposed...the system could be flooded with bogus appeals which in turn will cost us £27+VAT each time. I have read disturbing comments on various consumer forums that are going to openly advise people to appeal to the IAS with irrelevant points to cost the operator £27+VAT...

Has this been written with...the operator in mind? I think not – the people on the board are supposed to be on our side...

...whinge whinge whinge whinge...''



Apparently...allegedly...! :cool:



:rotfl:

Half_way

Could we see an exodus form the BPA? or even some shaddow companies set up to get round the BPA AOS system?

if most people pay up when a ticket is slapped on their car, why bother troubling the DVLA for data? why not just stick all the threatograms in one handy self adhesive pouch?

JagDriver

If Mr Perkins is reading, then I would point out that legally binding decisions in a court of record are not 'irrelevent', and if his attitude remains the same then remember to take a good quality soap with you when you visit Bubba.