Do all calls to 0844 numbers cost the same?

I_luv_cats

Thank god for Say No To 0870 !!!

I had to phone a company with an 0844 number a few times and last time they kept me waiting around 35 mins so saved myself ££!!

(supposed to have been 2 mins according to their automated message and I was ringing to chase up an order!!)

ktothema

jhp wrote: »

Your probaly find its even dearer then that EG: SKY 0844 G6 Chargeband 5.11p per minute and currently a connection charge of 12.5p.

http://www.sky.com/shop/terms-conditions/talk/code-of-practice/tariff-guide/

Eek. I swear this was 9.1p before 2nd July. Nice price hike if I'd written the price down right. Blimey.

latefriday

Thanks again for all the replies

Lithoman

Got a complaint about ALDI, ring 0844 406 8800, wait 20 minutes for a reply at 5p per minute, typical German bottom line efficiency, and bad customer service.

Ypaymore

Lithoman wrote: »

Got a complaint about ALDI, ring 0844 406 8800, wait 20 minutes for a reply at 5p per minute, typical German bottom line efficiency, and bad customer service.

I guess your not aware of www.saynoto0870.com where your find alternative numbers listed to the 0844 one.;)

DaveAA

How non-geographic numbers work.

When you call an 0843, 0844, 0871, 0872 or 09 number there are two parts to the price you pay for the call. This has always been true, but the details have been hidden away.

The business you are calling will have chosen the telephone number they want to use and it will impose a fixed "service charge" or "premium" on every caller. This is currently up to 5p/min for 084 numbers and up to 10p/min for 087 numbers. 09 numbers impose a higher service charge and therefore also come under specific PRS regulations. The revenue share mechanism is the same for all of these numbers, just varying by the "amount" of service charge involved.

When someone calls an 084, 087 or 09 telephone number, the callers phone company will impose an access charge on top of the service charge to arrive at the total pence-per-minute call rate. Landline operators generally add an access charge at a fixed ppm rate for all 08 and 09 numbers, which leads to a variable ppm rate for the call depending on which number was called. Mobile operators add a variable ppm rate for the access charge such that the overall ppm rate payable is fixed at the same level for all such numbers. Mobile operators also add a much larger access charge than landline operators.



Some examples:

Landline operator "V" (operator other than BT) adds a e.g. 9p/min access charge to all 0844 calls.
Number "A" with 1p/min service charge is billed as 10p/min to the caller (9p/min access charge).
Number "B" with 5p/min service charge is billed as 14p/min to the caller (9p/min access charge).

BT are not allowed to add an access charge. BT will bill those same calls as:
Number "A" with 1p/min service charge is billed as 1p/min to the caller (zero access charge).
Number "B" with 5p/min service charge is billed as 5p/min to the caller (zero access charge).

Mobile operator "T" charges e.g. 35p/min for calls to all 0844 numbers.
Number "A" with 1p/min service charge is billed as 35p/min to the caller (34p/min access charge).
Number "B" with 5p/min service charge is also billed as 35p/min to the caller (30p/min access charge).

Landline operators publish a price list with 6000 entries (084 3000 to 084 5999 and 087 0000 to 087 2999) in order for callers to be able to find the call price. This price is the combined access charge (usually from zero to 10p/min) and service charge.

Mobile operators charge an excessive access charge, often 20p to 40p/min. Mobile operators do not reduce the call price for calls to numbers with a lower service charge. They just increase the access charge to retain the same call price for all numbers (this greedy practice will end soon).

Phone companies generally do not publish the details of their access charge. They just publish the total pence-per-minute call rate (combined service charge plus access charge).

Companies that use these numbers often hide the details of the service charge (or "revenue share premium") and many deny that it even exists. Companies often try to hide behind descriptions such as "local rate" or "lo-call" rate, even though these terms have been outlawed since 2005 for 0845 numbers and have never applied to 0843 and 0844 numbers. Instead, most companies currently say something like "calls to this number cost 5p/min from a BT landline; other operators and mobile networks may charge more". This detail is completely useless to the vast majority of callers.

A few days ago, Ofcom announced more details of their new "unbundled tariffs" scheme that comes into effect next year..

This will require businesses to declare the service charge that applies to their number, and phone companies to separately declare their access charge.

Your bank or energy company will have to say "calls to our 0844 number attract a 5p/min service charge and your phone company will add their access charge". The service charge amount will vary by the number called: up to 7p/min for 084 numbers, up to 13p/min for 087 numbers and more than 20p/min for 09 numbers. For any one number this fee will be fixed and will be the same for all callers.

Your landline company will have to tell you "calls to 084, 087 and 09 numbers attract a 9p/min access charge". This fee will be the same for all 084, 087 and 09 numbers but it will vary from phone company to phone company and from tariff to tariff. This is the first time in the history of non-geographic numbers that landline tariffs will be easy to compare.

Your mobile phone company will have to tell you that "calls to 084, 087 and 09 numbers attract a 25p/min access charge". This fee will be the same for all 084, 087 and 09 numbers but it will vary from phone company to phone company and from tariff to tariff. This is the first time in the history of non-geographic numbers that mobile tariffs will be easy to compare.

It is likely that access charges, especially from mobiles, will reduce as compared to current levels. The exception is BT who have always been barred by competition regulation from adding an access charge for non-geographic calls. That regulation ends soon.

0845 and 0870 numbers are special cases. These were originally tied to "local rate" and "national rate", but only until 2005 when landline operators scrapped the price differential for local and national calls, thereafter charging a single "geographic rate" for all 01 and 02 numbers. They also moved most callers onto call packages where calls to 01 and 02 numbers of up to one hour duration attract no further charge above the monthly package price. Since 2005, 0845 and 0870 numbers have been expensive from landlines. They have always been expensive from mobiles.

Ofcom removed revenue sharing from 0870 in 2009. This led them to become "inclusive" in landline packages. BT also included 0845 numbers in landline packages believing that Ofcom were about to also remove revenue sharing from 0845 numbers. Call prices to 0870 numbers from mobiles did not reduce and so Ofcom decided not to go ahead with removing revenue share from 0845 numbers. BT currently subsidises calls to 0845 numbers for callers on a package plan.

Consumers are very confused by 08 numbers, especially that 0845/0870 are a different type of number to 0843/0844 and 0871/0872. Many people fail to realise the link to "local" and "national" pricing for 0845 and 0870 numbers ceased to exist more than 8 years ago.

Ofcom will be changing all that very soon. 0870 will return to revenue sharing. 0845 and 0870 will change to use the same revenue share mechanism already used by 0843/0844 and 0871/0872.

This will mean that all 084, 087 and 09 numbers use the exact same revenue share mechanism, with just the "amount" of service charge varying between each number range.

Companies that can no longer justify imposing a service charge on their callers should be moving to 03 numbers if they need the call-handling facilities that non-geographic numbers provide. If they don't need those facilities they can use 01 and 02 numbers.

In 2007, Ofcom reserved the 037 range for existing users of 087 numbers and the 034 range for existing users of 084 numbers that need to move to their "matching" 03 number. New users can use 030 or 033 numbers.

03 numbers are charged the same as 01 and 02 numbers for all callers. If the caller has "inclusive" minutes for calling 01 and 02 numbers, those minutes also apply for calls to 03 numbers.

Ofcom's "simplifying non-geographic numbers" project has taken years to organise. The end result will be:

030, 033, 034, 037 - charged at geographic rate, and inclusive in call plans. No service charge allowed.

084, 087, 09 - revenue share with three general levels of service charge (and further gradations within each band); with some 087 and all 09 numbers also coming under additional PRS regulation.

080 - free to all callers from both landlines and mobiles.

Later in 2013, BIS will announce the UK implementation of the Consumer Rights Directive. This requires businesses to use telephone numbers where callers "pay no more than the basic rate" for helplines, complaints, customer service, and so on. Businesses will be required to move from 084 and 087 numbers to the matching 034 or 037 number or to new 030, 033, 01, 02 or 080 numbers.

This is the biggest shakeup in non-geographic numbers since they were invented. Ofcom have said there will be an 18 month lead-in to final implementation of the "unbundled tariffs". I expect to see a LOT of information on the finer details published on this site as they become known.