Help! New Bathroom Leaking - Who pays?

phill99

keithgillyon wrote: »

i agree with most of the posts on here, but what worries me is the OP post no 8 the son has said he is no longer trading & as the OP contract was with him, no amount of legal action can get him to do anything if he has gone bust

This is erroneous. If the father and son team were a Limited Company and the work they undertook was in the capacity of the Limited Company, then any legal action has to be taken against the Limited Company. If that company has been dissolved, then there's no company to bring an action against and the problem remains unfixed. If the father and son outfit were acting as sole traders, then they are personally liable for any damages. Something tells me that these 2 guys are sole traders.

southcoastrgi

phill99 wrote: »

This is erroneous. If the father and son team were a Limited Company and the work they undertook was in the capacity of the Limited Company, then any legal action has to be taken against the Limited Company. If that company has been dissolved, then there's no company to bring an action against and the problem remains unfixed. If the father and son outfit were acting as sole traders, then they are personally liable for any damages. Something tells me that these 2 guys are sole traders.

i still stand by what i said, yes you are right a limited company going bust has no legal obligation to do anything, but how many cases have you heard of a sole trader going bust then doing work for free it doesn't happen, the OP would have to go to court which could be a long winded affair with no guarentee of winning & even if he did he would have major difficulty getting him to repair the work, he would have to prove he was negligent & as most judges have no common sense let alone any building knowledge i think he will be wasting his time, it could be years before this is sorted through the court if at all.

simonj007

Thank you all for your recent contributions - all points taken onboard I can assure you.

As it stands this morning - the Son didn't attempt to call me back last night as his voicemail of yesterday morning indicated - so I still have no idea what he intends to 'propose'.

Further to his voicemail yesterday I sent him an email asking him to email me details, I also have sent the Father two text messages asking him to ask his son to email me. Reason - I want everything in writing and also I'm working out of mobile signal all day today whilst in London.

Thus far, no email or no acknowlegment to my texts.

I've not seen anything to indicate that they are a limited company.

We picked up their business card in a large local tile shop as we had them come to quote for tiling only in the first instance.

It was only when they arrived to quote and we got talking that they indicated they could do the whole bathroom.

What was not made clear to us was that the Son, who indicated he would lead the project, had a day job - so he basically turned up at 4.30 each day to check the work his Father had been doing. The Son would do the tiling and grouting - the Father the labouring, boxing in, stud work and plastering, decorating...

- It will be a week tomorrow since I first notified them of the leak.
- It took subsequent chasers before I got a response.
- Fathers inspection visit was Tuesday evening 7.30pm (so a full 4 days after first notification!)
- Now as I write almost a further 48 hours with still no indication of a plan of action from them.

My brothers law firm is business/contract and commercial.

I'll update you further once I receive their proposition.

Thanks again for helping us through this.

Leif

I suspect you should be using recorded delivery not email, as emails do go missing, and it is hard to prove otherwise. Recorded delivery is easy to check.

I don't want to sound clever or rude, but I would not recommend using somone who advertises in a tile shop, you just don't know who they are. Then again, we all make mistakes.

simonj007

The tile shop was a rather expensive outlet and said they only hold cards for tradesmen they would happily recommend - we did ask.

Leif

simonj007 wrote: »

The tile shop was a rather expensive outlet and said they only hold cards for tradesmen they would happily recommend - we did ask.

Topps said something similar to me, but I would want to know more about how they decide to recommend someone.

phill99

keithgillyon wrote: »

i still stand by what i said, yes you are right a limited company going bust has no legal obligation to do anything, but how many cases have you heard of a sole trader going bust then doing work for free it doesn't happen, the OP would have to go to court which could be a long winded affair with no guarentee of winning & even if he did he would have major difficulty getting him to repair the work, he would have to prove he was negligent & as most judges have no common sense let alone any building knowledge i think he will be wasting his time, it could be years before this is sorted through the court if at all.

But by definition, a sole trader may go bankrupt as an individual, but it doesn't discharge his liabilities to his customers. If a sole trader takes on a van to say buy a new van, even if he ceases trading as a sole trader, he as an individual, will always be responsible for the repayment of that loan, even if he oes and gts a job as a bus driver. He will always be liable. Sole traders take personal responsibility for their work and any failings that may occur. They cannot hide behind a corporate defence.

simonj007

Thank you Phill - I would agree.

Also, the fact that the Father is local and just lives around the corner, the Son is just 20 mins away too. Even the professional plumber they used who moved the pipes is local to the area and just building his business.

All in all and on the whole we got on well with them - time delays for various reasons aside.

simonj007

Update - just received email from the Son:

Simon

I apologies for the slow returns on emails etc, but I hope you can appreciate I dont use this address anymore its soley my Dads, I am getting involved to resolve the problem, we have come up with a solution but I think it is better to speak about rather than a email. A email will then follow to confirm our/your intentions after the conversation. I will call you tonight at 7pm to discuss where we can go from here.

Regards
_______________________

Ok - so I've instantly replied requesting a number I can reach him on as I am out at a concert tonight so won't be able to take his call.

ListysDad

To be fair, his tone seems pretty genuine and conciliatory. I like the fact he wants to speak to you so you can look him in the eye to see if he's genuine.

IMO you should try work with him and, if you can bring yourself to, use language like disappointed etc rather than you're rubbish and I'm telling everyone how bad you all are.

Its simply human nature that if he/they see you as 'recoverable' they will work much harder for you. It's only if they fail you change your language and get legal/stroppy.

D