End of KS1 teacher assessments - good, but how good?

thegirlintheattic

Poppy9 wrote: »

Just looked at the school website:
We use FFT data, Alis data and standardised tests (Midyis, AWRT, Yellis). At KS3 and KS4 FFT data is used to predict pupil performance; at KS5 Alis is used. We track pupil performance against this data using the 123 review system. The 123 system is new this year.

They get a 1, 2, 3 (1 is above level, 2 on target and 3 below). One of DD friends had all threes in March so was not allowed study leave for Summer AS exams. She had 3 As in January AS exam modules and is a great student so it seems unfair to not allow study leave based on inaccurate performance measuring.

What I don't understand is how the automated predictions can be wrong if a pupil is performing well throughout the year, attaining good marks in the regular tests and external exams. What marks are they putting into the system as data?

I have to be honest in that I've ignored the 1-2-3 and stand back as DD is almost an adult, works hard and she is content she knows what she is doing.

FFT is only based on certain attainment data like SATs in core subjects. It's also based on lots of socio-economic stuff. They are not meant to be used in target setting but are widely used for this purpose. They are often only increased by the recommend 2 sub-levels of progress a year and never reviewed i.e. little Johnnie has a FFT target of a 5c in Year 7, automatically increased to 5A in Year 8 and 6B in Year 9. Obviously this is not the best practice but is what happens in the vast majority of schools.

This all means that in a subject that is not a core subject the targets can be grossly wrong.

More info here, should you wish to read up:
http://www.thegrid.org.uk/learning/assessment/data/fischer.shtml
http://www.fischertrust.org/downloads/dap/Training/Making_best_use_of_FFT_estimates.pdf
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/874325-Is-it-just-me-or-are-the-Fischer-Family-trust/AllOnOnePage

FBaby

Getting all 3 is a great indication that they are likely to do well. How well is another matter. There would be quite a difference between an 3c and 3a at this stage, but this is not specified.

For indication, both my children at all '3' in the 5 standards (3 in English, 1 in Maths, 1 in Science). My son finished year 4 and got a 4c in Reading and Writing, a 4a in Maths and 3a in Science. My DD who just finished year 7 got a 7c in Maths, 7c in Science and 6c in English so well above the average levels.

I think when you have bright children, it is more about insuring they continue to progress at their speed (most likely by 2 points -3c to 3a for instance, or more, rather than the level itself.

vicker

Just want to clarify that teacher assessments can be pushing into level 4 at end year 2. Teachers are fully aware of the levels above those which they teach at and can identify a child working at those higher level skills.

OP - if your child was working into level 4 at end KS1, they would let you know. Level 3 is a great result at end year 2, but it is a level achieved by about top 15-30% of children, depending on the group of children.

room512

We give SATs scores to parents and in Year 2 a Level 3 is the highest possible score to achieve from the paper. When the children go into Year 3 that is when it will be possible to see if it is a 3 a,b or c. At the end of the first half term the teacher should be able to tell you.

Ellejmorgan

I have a DD exactly the same age, she'll be 7 on Thursday..

Her reading age was 9.5 in her school report..

OP shouldn't it have a letter next to the number as this makes a difference, ie 3C isn't as good as 3A

Poppy9

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

More info here, should you wish to read up:
http://www.thegrid.org.uk/learning/assessment/data/fischer.shtml
http://www.fischertrust.org/downloads/dap/Training/Making_best_use_of_FFT_estimates.pdf
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/874325-Is-it-just-me-or-are-the-Fischer-Family-trust/AllOnOnePage

Thank you so much for this

JodyBPM

Ellejmorgan wrote: »

I have a DD exactly the same age, she'll be 7 on Thursday..

Her reading age was 9.5 in her school report..

OP shouldn't it have a letter next to the number as this makes a difference, ie 3C isn't as good as 3A

I asked the teacher about the letter (ie why just "3" rather than 3a/3b/3c, and the response I got from the teacher was that they deliberately don't give this distinction, because they feel that a 3 is (in their words) "way above what is expected at this age and that is as much as parents need to know at this stage". The teacher was very clearly not going to give any more information than "well above the levels expected", so I still don't really have any perspective. DD goes to a good school in a nice area, where competitive mum syndrome is rife, and I suspect they are concerned about giving parents unrealistic expectations or parents hot-housing children etc - I appreciate at 7 that these results shouldn't really be taken as anything more than an indicator that a child is doing well, but I do find the schools cagey-ness quite frustrating. IMO there is a big difference between a child who has just inched into a 3c at this stage, and one who is confidentally working at a 3a - the former I would think was not unusual, but the latter I would say is.

Incidentally, for those mentioning 4s at the end of KS1, I don't think the teachers would give a 4 in this school. I got the distinct impression that they give a 3 to anyone over 2a as a general catch all covering 3c and above. They gave out a results sheet showing school and national levels, and 0% in the school got a four, and according the sheet 0% nationally got a 4. I appreciate that doesn't mean 0 children, just less than 0,5% (due to rounding), but I certainly think that a 4 would be very, very unusual.

I wasn't given a reading age for DD or DS, although I did have one sentence saying that DS had "passed" the year 1 phonics check, but no actual result was given.

FBaby

You're assessment and what you've been told is exactly what it was like at our primary school too. We also didn't get reading age and like you a level 3 is all we got. There were about 15 to 20% getting a level 3 for each discipline but I recall the percentage of children getting 3s in all discipline was less than 5%. Remember that for a teacher/school was matters to monitor with clever kids is their level of progress not their actual levels. I was told many times to expect my kids to only progress one level some years because they were very advanced but that they would challenge them to go up 2 levels as much as possible. They have continued to thrive each year though by either 2 levels and even 3 in their top subjects. Now that my kids are older I am also more focused on their progress rather than their actual levels.

room512

In KS1 you will not get a letter after the level 3 if they are reporting SAT scores in Year 2 as the paper does not give you that information. When you mark the papers a score is generated and that gives the level. It will generate 1c, 1b, 1a, 2c, 2b, 2a and then 3. You cannot score a 4 in SATs at KS1.

jellyhead

room512 wrote: »

In KS1 you will not get a letter after the level 3 if they are reporting SAT scores in Year 2 as the paper does not give you that information. When you mark the papers a score is generated and that gives the level. It will generate 1c, 1b, 1a, 2c, 2b, 2a and then 3. You cannot score a 4 in SATs at KS1.

I suppose a teacher assessment might be a level 4 though?

Our school is the same as Jody and Fbaby mentioned above - we are not given reading age (but we are given a SATS level) and anything over a 2a is simply given a level 3.

As I said before, when my eldest took his SATS more than a third of kids got a level 3, so it doesn't tell you much - for example not all of the kids getting level 3 then getting straight 5's in their year 6 SATS would even be in the top stream once they got to high school.

If your daughter is exceptionally clever then the teacher would tell you at parents evening.

Our school reckons that at the age of 6-7 all you need to know is that they are above average, which makes sense to me. The competitive mums in the playground when my eldest took his year 2 SATS were awful. All the children who scored 2b or below went swimming while those who scored 2a took their level 3 exams. The sneering comments to mums of kids who had a swimbag on their back when they lined up were shocking :eek: My 6 year old asked the teacher if he could go swimming isntead of sitting the level 3 exam, and the teacher said yes. The other mums in the playground were amazed that I 'let' him do that :rotfl:

He's still going into the 6th form next year, so it didn't make any difference whether he could surpass level 2a when he was 6

If a child is exceptional though (neither of mine are) then it's important to know so that they can be stretched in lessons rather than getting bored.