No Notice in Car Park that Parking Fine Would be Levied...

sahara05

Hi

I received a parking notice from euro car parks for over stay in my local Waitrose. There are notices in the car parks to say that you can't stay over 2hours. There were no signs displaying the terms andconditions of the car park as I entered and there was no information about parking fees and anysubsequent charges which could be incurred for failing to comply. The charge is a lot more than thecouncil parking fines, £70, reduced to £50 if pay within 14 days. The councilis £50 reduced to £25 if paid within 14 days.

Can they enforce the fine?

trisontana

For a start it's not a "fine" and, because of the lack of signage their case is dead in the water. So just ignore them.

Our local Waitrose (looked after by Britannia) have exactly the same set-up. The only notice is one about 12 inches square affixed to the wall next to the store entrance.

Stephen_Leak

No, because it isn't a fine.

Firstly, the legal stuff.

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private company or individual can't. A private parking company (PPC) call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract between the car park owner and a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any breach of contract is what they’ve lost as a result. If it’s in a free car park or the driver paid, this is £0.00. Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now two recent landmark court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs, Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In both cases, the judges found that only the car park owner can take drivers to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is a court of record, equivalent to the High Court, and therefore its judgement sets a legal precedent.

What should I do now?

We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If you owe the CPO the original charge, then you ought to write to the CPO, offering this in “full and final settlement”. In any event, you should write to the CPO, advising them that they are "jointly and severally liable" for the actions of their agents, the PPC, and that any further actions by either of them would be regarded as harassment under the terms of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997. This ought to make the CPO call off the PPC and, hopefully, realise the potential cost of doing business with a PPC.

Don’t appeal to the PPC. They always reject them. What’s in it for them to let anyone off? Actually, there is something in it for them: information. They need to know the identity of the driver of the vehicle involved at the time, because that’s who the alleged contract was with. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to make do with harassing the registered keeper.

With windscreen notices, an appeal letter will tell them your name and address, and maybe who was driving at the time. If they don’t know who the driver was, they have to buy the details of registered keeper from the DVLA. With postal notices, they’ve had to do this already. But they still need to know the identity of the driver.

They sometimes say that they have the right to ask for this information. This doesn’t mean that you have to tell them.

However, even if you’ve written and told them who the driver was, it doesn’t make their actions any less unlawful. It just means that instead of harassing the registered keeper, they can now harass the driver.

What will they do to me?

The PPC, then a debt collector and then a solicitor will send you a series of letters. The debt collector and solicitor are usually also the PPC, but using different headed paper. These letters will threaten you with every kind of financial and legal unpleasantness imaginable to intimidate you into paying.

But, they can't actually do anything, for the same reason that a blackmailer couldn't sue anyone who didn’t pay them.

What should I do then?

Continue to ignore everything you get from the PPC and their aliases. It does seem counter-intuitive to deal with something by ignoring it. Eventually, they will run out of empty threats, and stop throwing good money after bad.

sahara05

Thanks both for your reply...I was anxious about how I should deal with this

AltheHibby

sahara,

I imagine that most of us were anxious. At least you came to the right place for help.

LincolnshireYokel

sahara05 wrote: »

Thanks both for your reply...I was anxious about how I should deal with this

Its easy

Ignore them, and all the vacuous, unenforceable, toothless threatograms they will send you in the next few months.

Its all rubbish, theres nothing they can do, and your not obliged to pay.

Kite2010

If there is no notice then you never entered into a contract with them.

Ignore Euro they will soon go away and harass another customer, and also ignore Waitrose

sarahg1969

T&CP issue tickets at my local Asda despite there being no signage!

trisontana

I wonder if it's Waitrose's policy not to clutter up their car-parks with parking signs? If it is, then that makes any parking charge notices even more unenforceable.

Coupon-mad

sahara05 wrote: »

Hi

I received a parking notice from euro car parks for over stay in my local Waitrose. There are notices in the car parks to say that you can't stay over 2hours. There were no signs displaying the terms andconditions of the car park as I entered and there was no information about parking fees and anysubsequent charges which could be incurred for failing to comply. The charge is a lot more than thecouncil parking fines, £70, reduced to £50 if pay within 14 days. The councilis £50 reduced to £25 if paid within 14 days.

Can they enforce the fine?

You are not liable to pay and you must not 'appeal' either. This is a private company with an unsolicited invoice, dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It's not a fine and it's not going to amount to anthing except letters., rather like a series of phishing emails you would just delete.

Tick off the threatening letters Here.

Watchdog clip with expert Solicitor's opinion here.

Barrister's opinion here.


HTH

ManxRed

On the paper slips that my local Waitrose hand you as you enter the car park, it still uses the word 'fine'.

Muppets.