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RenovationMan wrote: »I'm a higher rate taxpayer and so any money I put into a pension plan receives tax relief at 40%. When I actually retire, I can take 25% tax free and the remaining 75% will be taxed at basic rate (20%). In a way, I'm saving to be taxed less in due course.
You never know when any of those percentages will be changed.
I know you can't plan on that basis but perhaps you ought to factor some of them into your thinking.
I wouldn't be surprised if the relief becomes less than the actual tax take, to benefit from your gains.
If the soon to be pensioners are going to have to pay more don't see why that progression shouldn't continue.
No doubt there will be some up font contribution required, to your possible long term care in old age, which you might not even benefit from either.
What a rosy future glad I'm that bit older."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
chucknorris wrote: »I don't think that it will be means tested because people have paid into it. But I do think at some point they will stop increasing it in line with inflation, this would be less bitter pill for the public to swallow. This would of course create the need for a benefit top up for those who couldn't manage (which would of course be means tested).
So how long will it take to get back to where we are;)"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
chewmylegoff wrote: »Except no one has "paid into it" and the some government will just have to admit that was all a lie. Employee NI contributions don't even cover the basic state pension payments let alone all the other things they supposedly cover. The state pension will just become a benefit paid to those who cannot afford to fund their own living in due course (just like all other benefits).
They may not have actually paid into a ring fenced fund but they have paid under their covenant with the Governments of the day.
The Government will never admit it was lie because that would undermine democracy.
More and more people will cease to be able to provide for themselves as the economy continues on its current trajectory.
More and more people will rely on old persons benefit which will become more workhouse like as the years progress.
The young will not like the fact that we have a two tiered society and that they face years of no hope and will steadily engineer a better fairer system that isn't just based on greed and consumption.
With better social networks that change will happen much quicker than it did in the past.
There are no time lines on any of this as it will morph together.."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
What this all ignores is the potential for emerging new technology to improve productivity.
New technology and productivity gains for all, is what was promised in the 60s and 70s.
All those gains were taken and not distributed "fairly".
Without political intervention to ensure those benefits are ploughed back in in full they will not help."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
suppose, just suppose that through some miracle of prudence everyone starting saving for their pension and so in 30 years time every single person reaching pensionable age had a healthy pension, all self funded
would this overcome the problem of the demographic time bomb?
in other words, as long as all pensioners had lots of money saved, would it matter that there wasn't many people of working age?
The problem would then be cashing in the assets in order to provide a pension.
There will be an example of that in about 10 years time in Aus as the first big group of Ten Pound Poms and other European migrants that have a good amount of Super (a compulsory private pension scheme for all employees earning over $400/month) start retiring.0 -
chewmylegoff wrote: »Except no one has "paid into it" and the some government will just have to admit that was all a lie. Employee NI contributions don't even cover the basic state pension payments let alone all the other things they supposedly cover. The state pension will just become a benefit paid to those who cannot afford to fund their own living in due course (just like all other benefits).
What I am saying is that, if the Gov announced pensions would be means tested tomorrow, to say it wouldn't go down well would be an understatement. But what they can do (and actually have already started) is to play around with (and continue to do so) the payment system such as revising the age that it is payable and altering the inflation process of the paid pension. If we reached a point in time where the pension was not increased at all with inflation it wouldn't take long before huge savings were being made. This I see as much more likely than a Gov announcement stating that all pensions would be means tested, the top up benefit required by those in need would of course be means tested.
I am not too concerned about this though as it will be less than 10% of our retirement income. But of course I will take the pension if I can as I do consider that I have paid for it having been a high rate tax payer for most of my working life.Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »So how long will it take to get back to where we are;)
I'm not sure what you are asking? Are you asking how long would it take for the benefit top up to raise their pension to current levels?
Straight away for those that needed it, but never for those that didn't need it because the benefit top up would be means tested. Hence the saving to the Gov.
I suppose I wouldn't really have any problem with this happening as those that need it would still get their full pension and although I would want it, it isn't going to change my life if I miss out on it. I imagine at that age there will be far more important things for me to worry about.
If you are asking how long before we end up in this mess again, well probably after I'm gone so it really doesn't matter to me, it actually doesn't change my life too much if they cancelled the state pension tomorrow (although I admit that it would annoy me for some time).Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one birdThe only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistakeChuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".I've started running again, after several injuries had forced me to stop0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »The trouble with expecting people to save up for their own retirement is that I honestly don't believe the average joe worker would be able to earn enough in their working lifetimes to cover the costs.
Here's your basic conundrum - how to get an acceptable standard of living for everybody when the free market won't share the money out that way?
Of course the main obstacle to a solution is the number of people who recognise no social obligation (or even the extent of their own dependence on other people) and think that whatever the free market will pay them is their own money. (There's a name for them, four letters, starts with T)"It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0 -
given that during most of the last 67 years, the level of home owmership was less than it is now, do you believe all that time was less morally repugnant or more morally repugant that now?
and do note that property ownership in Wales is higher than England
but of course you do
You forgot to mention that people now have iPhones and are all f3ckless wasters who spend all their remaining spare cash in Ibiza. Which is what you mean, and a road I really cant be bothered going down again with you.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »You beat me to it.
I thought wotsthat made a good point, people should be saving like mad to avoid living in virtual poverty on the state pension. You raised some points and I responded to them. If you don't like people to give alternate viewpoints from yours then perhaps you should start your own forum and post without retort to your hearts content? If you have an issue with the points I raised, why not simply put a counter argument, rather than joining in with a notorious troll who has no idea about finances and hates those who do?grizzly1911 wrote: »Reno man is self investing, so he will be alright, he has the angles covered until the Chancellor of the day takes some wild swipes.
For the other of oiks who thought it would be wonderful, and remember when they told us don't worry if they don't perform in the short term you need to consider them as long term investments.:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
If the government change the rules, then I'll just adapt my plan. This is the benefit of managing your own money. I'm not leaving it in a zombie fund in a deferred pension with a former employer, I have pulled them all together into a SIPP and manage them.
Lots of people seem to leave their finances completely in the hands of strangers, whether it is pensions or endowments. Decades later when they receive their crappy payout and they start screaming 'foul!'. The fact that they have often been receiving shortfall warnings from their provider and in the press seems not to register with them.
Sorry if your pension is not doing as well, but that is hardly my fault now is it? :cool:0
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