Preparedness for when

Caterina

Thanks Fruball, the thing about my system not being used to meat did occur to me, I am going to try and eat a small amount of meat now that I go to Sardinia, my brother lives in the country (bugout paradise but too hard to reach if TSHTF in the UK).

I would not feel too bad ethics wise as the animals he eats mainly come to the farm next door and have had a mega nice wild organic upbringing, practically live free roaming about until their death.

Helen2k8

Caterina wrote: »

Got something that bothers me and I would love to hear others' opinions:

in terms of survival, do you think that people like me, practically vegetarian, are going to have a substantial disadvantage? I read about all sorts of bushcraft stuff and a lot of it is about hunting and fishing etc. I even saw something about eating worms (apparently a very good source of protein).

If TSHTF and we stay put, stores of food would see us through for a while, but in the situation that we were to be on the move, I am really worried.

I have been wondering whether to start eating some meat (other than the odd slice of Parma Ham I mean!) but not sure about the ethics of eating meat in preparation, and in any case one thing is eating a nicely prepared chicken breast, another to eat a (possibly raw) pigeon or rabbit leg! Let alone a handful of grubs or wood lice! Advice and comments welcome. Thanks.

An interesting post

Background - I'm into eating "paleo" (hate the label), farm livestock to a certain degree, and have killed/gutted my own meat before now. I'm also creating a forest garden so am looking into native/non native food plants etc.

It depends how far ahead you're thinking. In terms of weeks or months there should be dried rice, beans, other staples. After that...
In our climate there simply isn't much wild vegetable food, and when the SHTF I doubt many people will suddenly learn how to plant, grow, and harvest grains. I would guess that the £30'000 combine harvesters will be ripped apart for metal/parts.

On your own or in a small group you will get more calories and nutrition from meat I'm afraid - and we're not short of bunnies. It is possible to live solely on meat, whereas in a "SHTF" situation you won't be wanting to soak and boil dwindling supplies of beans for protein. It's also more bang-for-your-buck in terms of energy spent hunting/trapping vs energy gained (especially from eating fat).
Plus you can make slippers from the rabbit pelts
Perhaps later agriculture can make a come-back

One point - "off" meat is more dangerous than "off" veg, so you'd have to learn how to preserve it.

Dippypud

That is the best way to deal with that Caterina...

but you should be able to do alot of veggies, whether that would be enough calories I don't know.

Bearing in mind you would be doing much more 'work' for it.

Dippypud

Helen2k8 wrote: »

An interesting post

Background - I'm into eating "paleo" (hate the label), farm livestock to a certain degree, and have killed/gutted my own meat before now. I'm also creating a forest garden so am looking into native/non native food plants etc.

It depends how far ahead you're thinking. In terms of weeks or months there should be dried rice, beans, other staples. After that...
In our climate there simply isn't much wild vegetable food, and when the SHTF I doubt many people will suddenly learn how to plant, grow, and harvest grains. I would guess that the £30'000 combine harvesters will be ripped apart for metal/parts.

On your own or in a small group you will get more calories and nutrition from meat I'm afraid - and we're not short of bunnies. It is possible to live solely on meat, whereas in a "SHTF" situation you won't be wanting to soak and boil dwindling supplies of beans for protein. It's also more bang-for-your-buck in terms of energy spent hunting/trapping vs energy gained (especially from eating fat).
Plus you can make slippers from the rabbit pelts
Perhaps later agriculture can make a come-back

One point - "off" meat is more dangerous than "off" veg, so you'd have to learn how to preserve it.

Great post...

but you can't live off rabbit alone, it takes more calories to digest it than it does from it, so you'd have to eat something else as well...fish, squirrel etc...:cool:

D&DD

Caterina maybe a foraging course or book might be a good investment as there are so many wild edibles that don't involve meat

I prep mainly for economic troubles but also for civil unrest due to where I live.

We've had powercuts,civil unrest,been snowed in,been evacuated for a bomb scare,fire and a gas leak,plus the latest fire was the 3rd from memory where we had to be sealed in,H1N1 outbreaks in all the boys schools,and thats just off the top of my head in the last few years (I don't live in Beirut honest!) Good news is nowhere near a flood plain

Dippypud

D&DD wrote: »

Caterina maybe a foraging course or book might be a good investment as there are so many wild edibles that don't involve meat

I prep mainly for economic troubles but also for civil unrest due to where I live.

We've had powercuts,civil unrest,been snowed in,been evacuated for a bomb scare,fire and a gas leak,plus the latest fire was the 3rd from memory where we had to be sealed in,H1N1 outbreaks in all the boys schools,and thats just off the top of my head in the last few years (I don't live in Beirut honest!) Good news is nowhere near a flood plain

http://www.wildforage.co.uk/

http://foodforagingcourses.co.uk/

GreyQueen

Caterina wrote: »

Got something that bothers me and I would love to hear others' opinions:

in terms of survival, do you think that people like me, practically vegetarian, are going to have a substantial disadvantage? I read about all sorts of bushcraft stuff and a lot of it is about hunting and fishing etc. I even saw something about eating worms (apparently a very good source of protein).

If TSHTF and we stay put, stores of food would see us through for a while, but in the situation that we were to be on the move, I am really worried.

I have been wondering whether to start eating some meat (other than the odd slice of Parma Ham I mean!) but not sure about the ethics of eating meat in preparation, and in any case one thing is eating a nicely prepared chicken breast, another to eat a (possibly raw) pigeon or rabbit leg! Let alone a handful of grubs or wood lice! Advice and comments welcome. Thanks.

Caterina, the subject of vegetarianism and veganism came up on my course last year. They cater for such diets but they don't shy away from discussing what would happen if you had to forage in a climate like the UK's either.

The short version is that it is very hard to get carbs from the wild in a northern temperate climate like ours, even to supplement a regular omnivorous diet. It isn't possible to get enough carb-rich foods in this zone to survive as a vegetarian. You need to have a mixed diet and when you're living outside you use a lot more calories that when you live warmly in buildings. The fat element from flesh foods is particularly important.

For example, we were eating like pigs inc chocolate and we were visibly losing weight in only 6 days. This same bushcraft company take people up above the 48th parallel in the US state of Maine in winter and one of the guys on the course had done that course with them before. His wife jokingly called it the Fat Camp, he lost so much weight. In extreme conditions, take can you average man's calorific requirements and x 3 or even more and he'd still probably lose weight.

As to whether you should practice meat eating, that isn't something I can really comment upon, as it is such a personal choice. I've been both vegetarian and vegan at different times in my life and such diets don't agree with me. They make me physically weak and lower my mood. Red meat has the opposite effect within minutes. I guess only you can decide. HTH.

In a SHTF survival situation your choices would be pretty stark; eat animal foods or slowly starve. I've never met a veggie bushcraft tutor although they are all slim, wiry and very fit.

ETA can recall reading about the necessity of having something in your SHTF stores to ease consitipation if you are suddenly going to a predominantly beans and grains storecupbaord diet as this would be a real problem. I also know a lot of vegetarians and vegans who struggle with depression and have often wondered if there is something in the diet which excaberates that, but I am a lay-person and only making an extrapolation from my own experience of low mood on a veggie diet, so it's probably co-incidental.

mardatha

I think Cattie that you should push it to the back of your mind and not worry. Id things went to custard in reality then you would eat whatever there was because you'd be starving. End of! Even fit healthy young men die of exposure up here in winter after a few nights outside, so I don't kid myself that many would survive TS hitting TF in Scotland.

Helen2k8

Dippypud wrote: »

Great post...

but you can't live off rabbit alone, it takes more calories to digest it than it does from it, so you'd have to eat something else as well...fish, squirrel etc...:cool:

Rabbit perhaps a bad example :rotfl:

Awww no it won't let me post a link... Google "QI rabbit starvation" and find the youtube vid by user akfilm92

greenbee

Helen2k8 wrote: »

It depends how far ahead you're thinking. In terms of weeks or months there should be dried rice, beans, other staples. After that...
In our climate there simply isn't much wild vegetable food, and when the SHTF I doubt many people will suddenly learn how to plant, grow, and harvest grains. I would guess that the £30'000 combine harvesters will be ripped apart for metal/parts.

if you can find a combine harvester for £30k let me know... They're more like £300k upwards now,

Caterina - you need to think about your reasons for being veggie. If they are ethical, then have a think about whether there are any kinds of meat production you are OK with. When I started eating meat again I mostly ate pigeon that my dad shot in the wood behind our house. I now source local, preferably organic meat and make sure I don't waste any of it.