Preparedness for when

RAS

GreyQueen wrote: »

Mar, re your online pal, there's a very real issue about the population density of a country like the UK vs a continent-sized country like the USA. We don't have vast wildernesses to lose ourselves in like the Rockies or the great deserts of the south-western US. But there is a reason that these parts have been historically under-occupied; very poor land and extremes of heat and cold. To a lesser degree, this applies to some regions of the UK…………………

In terms of heading for the tall timber, you might be well-advised to stay put in a known environment, whether it be urban, suburban or whatever. You can die of exposure pdq even in our climate, far faster than you'd perish of hunger…….

There are times when I worry about population and food production knowing that we only managed 60 percent in WW11 and the rest was imported with a much smaller population. Then I realised:
1. In WW11 a vast proportion of the fit adult male population was economically inactive because they were training or fighting. The farmers had to feed them and the civilians with fewer workers. The population who fought then could be growing food instead of eating it.
2. A substantial proportion of the rest of the adult population was making armaments, munitions and other military kit; divert similar effort to making appropriate equipment for a people- heavy agriculture and things like oxen-drawn equipment (easier to source than heavy horses) and things could turn round very quickly.
3. A lot of the stuff we had to import at great cost in lives effort and money would otherwise have been available from Europe.
4. We now know we can grow a lot of things that were not even included in the diets of the poshest people in the country, if we select carefully.
5. If we took a really hard look at the potential of our land, we could grow a lot more although it would take time to improve some land.

I do not think we could support the type of lifestyle and diet to which a lot of people are now accustomed. I hope we would not return to the dire straits of the early parts of the 20th century, but a lot would depend on political desire to ensure access by rationing for example. That will be a fight (agree with Bessie on this).

katieclampet

I have to say that I find the last few posts very interesting, well thought out, and I totally agree with everything said.

Certainly food for thought (pun intended:))

katie

[Deleted User]

minus 20 in 19 days or so

anyone else watch al jazeera sometimes? really good at areas like the Greece problems, stuff we never get to hear about on bbc

I met a real oo-arr older man yesterday, catches rabbits to make a few pence. The original Grundy from the archers. They are still about but now very rare

keep safe 2T, that was very scary. You did say about feeling odd a couple of weeks ago and now the shaking has started. You were right

GreyQueen

Excellent post, RAS.

I am often gobsmacked when I tot up the available land which is unused for anything productive; large gardens with excellent orientation to the sun sitting idle as scrub with nary a flower nor even a vegetable in sight. As a gardenless person, albeit one with an allotment, I could almost weep for the lost potential.

We could grow a heckuva lot more food than we do now, but were have been non-self sufficient for food for far more than WW2; we were importing a huge amount even in the mid-nineteenth century and our population then was a fraction of what it is now.

One thing which some people may have forgotten/ never knew, is that rationing caused an improvement in many people's health not just because it was a balanced diet light on carp like sugar but because it was the first time a lot of people had enough to eat at all. A staggering proportion of the men volunteering to serve in WW1 were so stunted with malnutrition that they couldn't be soldiers. TPTB were horrified when they realised this.

A couple of years ago I was scrambling around in the Tuscan mountains (don't be too envious, it rained all the time) and the staple carbohydrate up there was not the pasta that we all think of as essentially Italian but sweet chestnut flour, as it was in the mountains of Andalucia (wandered around the Sierra Nevada there, sunny that time). You ate what was local, what would grow in your climate and there wasn't the means to import bulky foodstuffs from other parts of your country, never mind across the globe.

Acorn flour was a staple of many indigenous American cultures although it requires processing to be edible. You can try eating a raw acorn. You'll only try it once, though.:rotfl:Please don't try eating horse chestnuts (conkers) these aren't edible.

We'd likely end up eating more of the grains which are ameniable to our climate and having a blander diet with far less choice. We'd also re-acquaint ourselves with the Hungry Gap, that point in late spring in our climate where the new crops haven't come in yet but the stored crops are gone or so depleted of goodness that they provide little nourishment.

I see one of the major problems being fuel to maintain our current habits of transporting food and other goods around the world. When (and it is a when, not an if) oil becomes scarcer and the price rises, everything which moves will cost more and for some items you'll probably see the return of localism. We'll buy the sausages produced in our county not the ones from Italy. We'll have our tatties off the field outside the city, not Jersey Royals. We will look to the cheese produced within a dozen miles because there will be a hefty price premium on the cheese from 200 miles away.

We'll travel less and live a lot more simply. For many people this will be a boon, some will percieve it as the worst thing which could possibly happen. I can probably expect to live another 35 years and I expect to see things change a lot by my dotage, as they have changed a lot from my 60s-70s childhood.

mardatha

RAS I have always known you were smart but these posts prove you a genius
I don't want to start about Scotland's state v Norway because it will get political and there's no point in that. Just hope that maybe one day when it's forced on them, people will throw out the landlords and take the land. I'm sure it could be reclaimed if given enough work.
This village was built when the railway came I think, the Waverly Line. I wish to hell I'd joined this forum and read your post over 20 years ago before I moved up here !!

westcoastscot

RAS wrote: »

Picking up on a few comments here

(((WCS – you have done it; I only came very close 20 years ago. I would not contemplate it now. At this point I think a lot of islands and some areas of the western seaboard have got to the stage where the many of the remaining communities are too small to be viable longer term, which is a huge pity; with more people it would be possible to support more services which could make life easier for everyone.)))
..............
RAS I agree communities are too small to be viable now - where we lived is mostly incomers now who mostly have money and chose to purchase goods and services on the mainland. Those that are left are having to turn to tourism more and more these days.
.....................
(((I agree that a lot of people would really struggle with the realities not so much of the portfolio career necessary in those areas but the portfolio of skills required in isolated communities. The stark fact is that a lot of people I encounter in the city would struggle with the portfolio of skills needed to produce or maintain any of the food or equipment they use day in day out; I am trying to work on that as best as I can but it is hard not to be seen as a white middle class parachute.)))

One of the most positive traits I see in my grown children, apart from their raft of practical living skills, is the relative ease with which they've adopted a portfolio lifestyle. I worry about the future much more than they do - they assume they will have to have lots of strings to their bows in terms of income, living a self-sufficient'ish lifestyle and supporting each other and wider family as we all age and genetic illness progresses in some of us, and they are each successful in their own way.


We certainly live in interesting times! I don't concern myself overly with the anarchy side of TEOTWAWKI as I think its both highly unlikely to happen except as a short term riot-style protest and if i'm wrong then no amount of prepping is going to help me, since I can't imagine i'd be prepared to defend myself to any degree with force (or capable probably). I try to concern myself with short-term issues such as weather or fiscal related emergencies, and to living as well as I can in as simple a way as possible.

2T i've been really interested to read your input to the thread - life certainly seems challenging over there - makes me wonder how far things will go in the UK.

WCS

2tonsils

Thanks for your interesting responses to my comments on the things that are currently happening. I am pleased you find them interesting. We have just renewed the earthquake insurance and I am pleased to say we got it 200 euros cheaper this year than we have been paying for the last five years. We also got more cover so well pleased about it.

The other things that are going on are enormous rows about the Lagarde list (a list of tax dodgers from all over Europe who have been salting billions away in foreign bank accounts, mostly off shore). People are being arrested here and their assets seized (not before time either). It seems more are being named and shamed every day but I doubt they are getting more than one percent of the culprits.

But its the pensioners, poor people and those on low income or unemployed who are suffering. I knew months ago that the government were thinking of stopping unemployment benefit at the start of 2013 and they are about to announce it in public. Some of those people have been paying up to 800 euros a month national insurance and now if they have claimed more than 400 days of benefit in the last four year added together their payments of 300 euros a month will stop immediately. There is no other social payment, no emergency payments or other benefits.
Despite being in the national health scheme we are still having to pay in full for medicines and visits to the doctor or dentist. The tough new measures for this year have not been announced yet. New taxes on property and belongings are being back dated to 2010 and count as arrears......

I can't see any end to it and I really hoped they would be thrown out of the euro and not given any more money. They have discovered massive oil/gas and gold fields here now in many areas but the Greek government have signed them all away in case of default.

2tonsils

I forgot to mention one of my friends is forecasting a huge deep freeze in Europe and the UK from around the 16th January..have stocked up on wood and calor gas but I really hope it does not happen here. Many people have no heating and not enough food to cope with something like that.

Re the earthquakes, we were out for a ride in the car yesterday and I noticed lots of rocks down on the sides of the road, new, very deep pot holes and cracks in the road as well. We are on the move....

Uniscots97

2tonsils wrote: »

Well after a very relaxing Christmas in Northern Greece wandering around a lake in the sunshine, then a nice New year letting in Greek then British new year with a gang of friends in fancy dress I am almost back to normality now lol. I thought things had been very quiet over the holidays and I must say I enjoyed the break from worrying if the S would HTF anytime soon.

However, things seem to be hotting up a bit today. Here is the news from the last few hours...

Crete has had 12 minor earthquakes today, the biggest being 4.5 and its still shaking.

Stromboli volcano in Italy has been shaking for a few days and is now starting to erupt again with violent explosions of very liquid lava that is spraying over nearby villages.

1.5 million people have been told to evacuate a city in Iran immediately. Only 'pollution at emergency levels' is mentioned but most sources seem to think there is a radioactive leak/explosion at the nearby Nuclear facility.

The Greek government have just published the following figures:

Tax from heating oil revenue increases have dropped by 400 million euros as no one can afford to buy it. Pollution is at dangerous levels in Athens due to all the wood fires being relit so the government is planning to add tax to fire wood.

Tax from increased alcohol duty has resulted in a drop of 70 percent in alcohol sales and consumption.

Road tax, which is due this week has been increased and as a result 25 percent have taken their car off the roads and returned the plates to the tax office. Another 25 percent cannot pay the tax and are expected to pay very late (100 percent fine added) or to return the plates.

The government are adding FIVE extra property taxes to the January electric bill and the price of electric is going up by 45 percent as well. The electric board now have almost fifty percent of customers who cannot pay and are cut off.

No one will get a tax allowance this year so you will pay tax from the first euro income. Pensioners and people who earn only 5000 euros a year will also be taxed.

Blimey, happy new year to all politicians! Stocked up on food again today and bought lots of offers that were on. I might need a couple of months of non spending just to pay my January taxes.....

My Grandpa took some amazing pictures of Stromboli during ww2.


As for the tax on fire wood :eek:, people will just do what they did before go to the woods and cut what they need!!!! As for the tax, thats awful!

bluebag

2 tonsils
you say you keep expecting the s to hit the fan, well looking at all those taxes I would say it already has! Stay well and safe.