Preparedness for when

Blue_Doggy

nuatha wrote: »

There is no need to use chips, which are a tech that can be changed or neutralised.
Banks are working on a hand scanner for ATMs that identifies individuals from the pattern of veins in their hands. Biometric passports work from eyescans and fingerprint recognition.
The scifi advantage of RFID chips is tracking movement, but the power of these chips is so low that identification and tracking requires almost intimate contact. Contrast that with the unique identifier/tracker most of us choose to carry, the mobile phone and the number of CCTV cameras combined with both facial recognition software and software that identifies movement and gesture patterns.

Given the current government, I suspect the first step would be a benefit claimant card with biometrics to access services, pressure on the banks to improve security with biometrics on all bank accounts and you have a backdoor national identity scheme. Any one who didn't comply would be cut off from accessing banking and benefits, so add biometrics to driving licences - you can see how easy it would be and all without any invasive tech.

As my business card used to say, Professional Paranoid.

This is why I only have a phone which I don't always take out with me!

The advantage of microchip technology is that it's here already and basic processes are in place (in dogs & cats) although could be developed further. But you're right, biometrics are also a route for TPTB to use to collect data about the citizenry. Even biometrics can change though although rarely. The cost of CCTV has also to be factored in: It was reported recently that some councils are switching off their CCTV cameras because austerity makes them too expensive to run. And there are other limitations.

They also need to be able to register face x as belonging to person x, and faces change with age, or with surgery. Microchipping babies and children at crucial moments allows the identification to be made at any age and surgery would be needed to remove the chip - unchipped people can easily be picked out.

The big danger, as ever, is the databases which will hold all this data, and the algorithms which will manipulate that data. The use of the respective collection methods is that the populace can be got to debate heatedly about the "best" method, while the data is quietly being collected and the algorithms are being perfected.

moneyistooshorttomention

Blue_Doggy wrote: »

If TPTB made the "chip" a condition of getting treatment, benefits, your new-born returned to you (only an unfit parent would refuse...), consent, even if reluctant, would be high.

Get a "Celebrity" to wrap it up prettily, ostracise the refusers.

Not that I'm a cynic or anything .

You can see it coming - the excuse made to new parents that "Should anything happen to your child - abduction, getting lost, etc - then we could just zoom in on their chip to find them" and bingo some worried parents would agree and others would be convinced by said celebrity (as you say) and any convenient child abduction that happens at that point in time.

moneyistooshorttomention

nuatha wrote: »

There is no need to use chips, which are a tech that can be changed or neutralised.
Banks are working on a hand scanner for ATMs that identifies individuals from the pattern of veins in their hands. Biometric passports work from eyescans and fingerprint recognition.
The scifi advantage of RFID chips is tracking movement, but the power of these chips is so low that identification and tracking requires almost intimate contact. Contrast that with the unique identifier/tracker most of us choose to carry, the mobile phone and the number of CCTV cameras combined with both facial recognition software and software that identifies movement and gesture patterns.

Given the current government, I suspect the first step would be a benefit claimant card with biometrics to access services, pressure on the banks to improve security with biometrics on all bank accounts and you have a backdoor national identity scheme. Any one who didn't comply would be cut off from accessing banking and benefits, so add biometrics to driving licences - you can see how easy it would be and all without any invasive tech.

As my business card used to say, Professional Paranoid.

Difficult difficult difficult - as there are advantages to that sort of thing - as in only people "legally" resident here could get this and that would soon sort out who was here "illegally":T. So that would be a big plus side.

On the other hand, there's the rest of us (ie those who are legally here) that would get caught up in our privacy being invaded.

So how do you get the good side, without getting the bad side?

Frugalsod

Blue_Doggy wrote: »

This is why I only have a phone which I don't always take out with me!

The advantage of microchip technology is that it's here already and basic processes are in place (in dogs & cats) although could be developed further. But you're right, biometrics are also a route for TPTB to use to collect data about the citizenry. Even biometrics can change though although rarely. The cost of CCTV has also to be factored in: It was reported recently that some councils are switching off their CCTV cameras because austerity makes them too expensive to run. And there are other limitations.

They also need to be able to register face x as belonging to person x, and faces change with age, or with surgery. Microchipping babies and children at crucial moments allows the identification to be made at any age and surgery would be needed to remove the chip - unchipped people can easily be picked out.

The big danger, as ever, is the databases which will hold all this data, and the algorithms which will manipulate that data. The use of the respective collection methods is that the populace can be got to debate heatedly about the "best" method, while the data is quietly being collected and the algorithms are being perfected.

Chipping would also make terrorism easier. Imagine a bomb planted in a public space but with a scanner which could identify individual nationality and only detonate when a specific person or nationality walked by. Imagine a bomb that could target specific people.

It was the ability of thieves being able to scan wallets for the quantity of money a person was carrying that stopped the idea of chipping euro notes. Imagine only rich people being targeted.

Frugalsod

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Difficult difficult difficult - as there are advantages to that sort of thing - as in only people "legally" resident here could get this and that would soon sort out who was here "illegally":T. So that would be a big plus side.

On the other hand, there's the rest of us (ie those who are legally here) that would get caught up in our privacy being invaded.

So how do you get the good side, without getting the bad side?

The problem is that in order to get chipped to verify your identity you will feel pretty violated after all the questions.

Secondly do you honestly think that the data will not be abused and if the government databases get hacked by criminals that you will ever be able to regain your privacy and finances after they have sold the details on to other criminals.

Then if corporations demanded a way to verify you that your data will not be sold to some foreign corporation so that they can target you even more thoroughly with ads very specific to any health problems that you might have. It might also lead to companies like Amazon being able to price goods even higher just because they know you even more.

armyknife

I think I'm going to buy some Alcoa shares.

nuatha

Penny-Wise wrote: »

Anyone else tried Goblin brand stewed steak? I've found it online for 99p a tin & free delivery if you spend over £30. BBE 2018

I'm interested because it doesn't have wheat in it and I'm intolerant to wheat. But if it's so cheap as to be inedible is it worth buying?

I haven't seen the stewed steak, but have had and enjoyed their tinned steak puddings (tinned suet puddings).
If I saw Goblin stewed steak, I'd certainly buy it, though my initial purchase would be one or two tins. A quick google suggests that poundworld carry it, I'd also check B&M etc.

Penny-Wise wrote: »

I don't have a pressure canner or I would can it myself.

Most cans of meat are cheap meats that I wouldn't normally eat - but no matter what species is in there- even if it contains actual goblin - this one at least doesn't have stuff I can't eat in it.

I simply cant find another tin of steak without gluten in it.

My favourite cut of beef was one of the cheapest, though lately I've noticed most supermarkets sell shin beef (hough) as stewing steak.
It does amaze me just how pervasive gluten is - especially in products that I couldn't justify using it in my own recipes.

moneyistooshorttomention

Frugalsod wrote: »

The problem is that in order to get chipped to verify your identity you will feel pretty violated after all the questions.

Secondly do you honestly think that the data will not be abused and if the government databases get hacked by criminals that you will ever be able to regain your privacy and finances after they have sold the details on to other criminals.

Then if corporations demanded a way to verify you that your data will not be sold to some foreign corporation so that they can target you even more thoroughly with ads very specific to any health problems that you might have. It might also lead to companies like Amazon being able to price goods even higher just because they know you even more.

Part of the difficulty - ie we are being asked to trust that they (ie TPTB) know what they're doing/care what they're doing/are incorruptible. Hmmm....I'd qualify for the 2nd and 3rd ones...wonder if I can volunteer myself and then learn to "know what I'm doing":rotfl:

Same thing with governments as with individual people though - finding out just who you can trust and who you cant and its much harder to find a trustworthy govt. than individuals. I'm looking at an individual person I know right now that's expecting me to trust them - now I know they are going to go bankrupt (not sure if they do yet themselves = but its obvious its coming...:cool:), but its en route and I'm laying little bets with myself as to when it will be - and protecting my own personal little finances from going down with them when they go down in flames. Not to mention protecting myself from getting had up for what I'd do to them if they affected my finances in the process....

Now just how do you do that when its a government? Gawdknows:think:

nuatha

Blue_Doggy wrote: »

This is why I only have a phone which I don't always take out with me!

Which reduces one method of automated tracking.
Though if you are driving then number plate recognition systems can track your vehicle, electronic payment provides locations, (not to mention an oyster card in London)

The advantage of microchip technology is that it's here already and basic processes are in place (in dogs & cats) although could be developed further. But you're right, biometrics are also a route for TPTB to use to collect data about the citizenry. Even biometrics can change though although rarely.

What do you thing the real world range of low energy RFID is?
If you are looking for a high range solution with a reasonable interrogation interval, then you are looking at a relatively short battery life - a high power chip with a single broadcast per hour might achieve a four year life and be readable at 800m.
A passive chip might last decades but only be readable at 20cm.

The cost of CCTV has also to be factored in: It was reported recently that some councils are switching off their CCTV cameras because austerity makes them too expensive to run. And there are other limitations.

There are, but they are no longer limited to CCTV, Facebook is not launching its facial recognition system in Europe due to concerns that it will infringe EU regulations (and consequent massive fines) however there are search engines that can extract imagery from Facebook as well as the online photo storage systems. These can be processed through facial recognition software and your associations can also be identified.
CCTV may be being switched off in some areas, largely real time monitoring is being abandoned. The feed could easily (and cheaply) be stored and analysed.

They also need to be able to register face x as belonging to person x, and faces change with age, or with surgery.

Photocard driving license and passport. Photos taken when the biometrics are recorded.

Microchipping babies and children at crucial moments allows the identification to be made at any age and surgery would be needed to remove the chip - unchipped people can easily be picked out.

Chips can be killed by strong electro-magnets, new chips with a different ID can be implanted, and using an EEPROM combined with a RFID chip then you could change identities at will.

The big danger, as ever, is the databases which will hold all this data, and the algorithms which will manipulate that data. The use of the respective collection methods is that the populace can be got to debate heatedly about the "best" method, while the data is quietly being collected and the algorithms are being perfected.

Data security is already an issue, I remember the debates about merging the Government's systems, in particular the Custom's and Revenue systems and then the benefits databases. From memory non of the security issues were actually resolved, but even people in the field got bored with the debates and let it just fade away.

Frugalsod wrote: »

Chipping would also make terrorism easier. Imagine a bomb planted in a public space but with a scanner which could identify individual nationality and only detonate when a specific person or nationality walked by. Imagine a bomb that could target specific people.

Imagine a system that relies on the chip IDs and automatically lets authorised IDs to bypass manual security checks, now imagine what could be achieved by forging those IDs.

[Deleted User]

nuatha wrote: »

electronic payment provides locations, (not to mention an oyster card in London)

I don't use cards.

however there are search engines that can extract imagery from Facebook as well as the online photo storage systems. These can be processed through facial recognition software and your associations can also be identified.

I don't do Facebook.