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Preparedness for when

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  • nuatha
    nuatha Posts: 1,932 Forumite
    edited 1 June 2014 at 11:48AM
    Frugalsod wrote: »
    I also had concerns about the legality of distilling it even if you could make it. Though I suspect that a low grade bio fuel could be made from home waste that could be used for longer term crises. Wood would definitely become unviable in such an extended crisis.

    If we're talking about the long term regressive aftermath of a SHTF incident, I suspect legality will have little to do with it.
    Alcohol is very energy intensive to distill, I suspect any production would go for its traditional uses.
    Though sugar cane producing countries have a head start in bioethanol production and Brazil has substantial numbers of vehicles which will run on 100% bioethanol (and all vehicles have to run on 25% bioethanol mix). I do wonder whether the algae farms currently in development might function at UK latitudes (and how much tech would be required to maintain them).

    Wood properly managed could be the key fuel, it has been most of our past. Coppiced willow is very productive in terms of fuel mass (hemp apparently grows faster but there are other problems associated with growing it at the moment).
  • Good things to think about!
    jk0 wrote: »
    Hmm. I suspect it would take more energy to distill the alcohol than the alcohol itself would provide.

    (You might as well do your cooking on the fire you are using to distill the alcohol.)
    Unless you could distill as a side product of cooking maybe - have your still at the side of your fire and you could run off wasted heat. You wouldn't need a lot of heat I suspect, the whole point is that the alcohol evaporates off at a lower boiling point than the water.
    Would the ingredients for making Bio -ethanol still be available in a post SHTF world? best to find something that is renewable and still readily found if life changes and doesn't revert back to what we're used to.
    I think you can make bioethanol from anything that has enough carbohydrates to be fermented into alcohol. Probably some kind of root crop like sugar beet or potato would be best for density of production in most of the UK, growing grain crops would be more work intensive I would think.
    Frugalsod wrote: »
    I also had concerns about the legality of distilling it even if you could make it. Though I suspect that a low grade bio fuel could be made from home waste that could be used for longer term crises. Wood would definitely become unviable in such an extended crisis.
    I'm pretty sure you can distill alcohol for personal use quite legally in the UK, you just can't sell it. The problem with distilling your own spirits for personal consumption is the risk of producing methanol alongside the ethanol - methanol is poisonous. That wouldn't be a problem for fuel, though, you'd just be replicating meths. Maybe you should get some potassium permanganate to dye it purple and avoid accidental ingestion :)
  • Frugalsod
    Frugalsod Posts: 2,966 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    nuatha wrote: »
    If we're talking about the long term regressive aftermath of a SHTF incident, I suspect legality will have little to do with it.
    Alcohol is very energy intensive to distill, I suspect any production would go for its traditional uses.
    Though sugar cane producing countries have a head start in bioethanol production and Brazil has substantial numbers of vehicles which will run on 100% bioethanol (and all vehicles have to run on 25% bioethanol mix). I do wonder whether the algae farms currently in development might function at UK latitudes (and how much tech would be required to maintain them).

    Wood properly managed could be the key fuel, it has been most of our past. Coppiced willow is very productive in terms of fuel mass (hemp apparently grows faster but there are other problems associated with growing it at the moment).
    Yes the legality issue might be moot in a serious crisis. Though I think with the right set up a solar still will be energy efficient. All you need to do is separate the alcohol from the solution and a solar still might be viable. Though the risks of producing methanol as opposed to ethanol as suggested by PP will be irrelevant if only used as a source of fuel.

    If there was no law enforcement then hemp could easily be adopted for a fuel stock, but then distilling will also not be a problem.
    It's really easy to default to cynicism these days, since you are almost always certain to be right.
  • nuatha
    nuatha Posts: 1,932 Forumite
    I'm pretty sure you can distill alcohol for personal use quite legally in the UK, you just can't sell it. The problem with distilling your own spirits for personal consumption is the risk of producing methanol alongside the ethanol - methanol is poisonous. That wouldn't be a problem for fuel, though, you'd just be replicating meths. Maybe you should get some potassium permanganate to dye it purple and avoid accidental ingestion :)

    I'm sure distilling alcohol even for personal use is still illegal in the UK. Unfortunately a change in the law has rendered my bookmarks on the subject void and the HMRC website search engine is far from helpful.
    A friend once had a visit from revenue regarding her still, the smell of a still is fairly distinctive, though in her case they had to concede she was distilling essential oils which do not require a license - she did get a lecture on the perils of distilling alcohol from them.
  • Hmm I've done some more research and think you may be correct, Nuatha. All the guidelines I can find on the HMRC website say you need a licence to run a still, and elsewhere say they won't issue a licence for a still of less than 18 hectolitre capacity. All of which would make it rather tricky to legally run a still for personal fuel use. TPTB clearly not keen on independent endeavour in the matter of fuel production!
  • nuatha
    nuatha Posts: 1,932 Forumite
    Hmm I've done some more research and think you may be correct, Nuatha. All the guidelines I can find on the HMRC website say you need a licence to run a still, and elsewhere say they won't issue a licence for a still of less than 18 hectolitre capacity. All of which would make it rather tricky to legally run a still for personal fuel use. TPTB clearly not keen on independent endeavour in the matter of fuel production!

    There are mini still kits for sale - the problem being that buying and possesing a still are no longer illegal, its distilling alcohol that's the issue. This also applies to freezer distillation which is far more difficult to trace. However the 40% by volume level of alcohol may be quite palatable but is very much on the low side for a fuel.

    It is theoretically legal to produce limited amounts of bioethanol for off road use - however how you go about this without a still is an issue. You'd be better off turning used veg oil into bio diesel.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Debt-free and Proud!
    edited 1 June 2014 at 7:38PM
    best to find something that is renewable and still readily found if life changes and doesn't revert back to what we're used to.

    Gobar Gas perhaps?
  • Yup, the old ones are the best ones, it's the way you tell 'em!!!
  • Was that addressed to me MrsL?

    I wasn't joking.

    Gobar Gas is a real thing.
  • Frugalsod
    Frugalsod Posts: 2,966 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Cheapskate wrote: »
    Interesting - many of my friends do this, whether comments made from home, or when they're out somewhere. They probably don't think about their home location (out on holibobs not as crucial, I guess), but I have disabled it on my devices. Another thing is when they are away, "someone" could clock this and pop along to their home and get up to all sorts of shenanigans - it's like that advert showing crime where all your stuff is and leaving the door open! :eek:

    A xo
    I think that features like Find My Phone are still important enough to enable. Though I turn off location features all the time.
    It's really easy to default to cynicism these days, since you are almost always certain to be right.
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