Preparedness for when

[Deleted User]

Frugalsod wrote: »

In the countryside there are many reasons why you might want to carry a knife and none involve stabbing anyone

The problem is, there are very few (just 4, IIRC) statutory defences, for possessing a knife in public.

As a result, even when carrying for perfectly legitimate reasons, it comes down to the opinion of a Magistrate/Jury, as to whether your "Good reason" is good enough.

[Deleted User]

Trouble with taking a stance on immigrants in my eyes is that if they did stop coming who would do all those jobs like the land work, lowest paid workers in care homes and hospitals, factory work that the younger generation in the UK seem to think they're too good to do? Please don't for a second think I mean that foreign nationals should only be employed at those levels and for those menial jobs but the eastern europeans I've come into contact with are here working thier socks off and have the work ethic to do any job, nothing beneath them too, to the best of thier ability and wholeheartedly too for a wage our young folks don't consider worth working for. Not everyone can go on to higher education but so many of our young don't even see why they need even a basic up to the age of 16 education and frankly it seems that the education being provided isn't achieving what it's set up to do doesn't it? I really think we NEED the immigrants or the basics of industry might not keep rolling which would be disastrous.

GreyQueen

Lyn, I talk to eastern and southern european migrants daily. I rarely encounter a wrong 'un and, shamefully to us, many of them speak english more clearly and articulately than plenty of indigenous brits who have it as a first language, not a second or a third.

But I feel the argument about who would do the jobs is a well-worn canard. Having migrant labour available is very good for the owners of care-homes, the growers of veggies, the runners of factories.

It isn't good for the rest of us. There are no jobs, even those which are life-threatening dangerous, never mind merely boring, which fail to find workers if the money is right.

Migrant labour keeps wages costs down, and many migrants aren't running their own homes with all the costs that entails, but hot-bedding in other people's homes. There are at least 5 eastern european men, sometimes more, living in a flat very near mine, and the noise and stink of so many crammed into a tiny one bed flat is annoying the heck out of the rest of us.

What are we going to do as a society; pay our own people the dole and import labour? It's bonkers. We managed perfectly well for labour before 2004. If employers don't have easy access to migrant labour, they'll have to start paying the market rate for it. As it is, we collectively pay for people to be unemployed, under-employed and poverty-paid and subsidised by tax credits.

Plus there's something else to consider; the damage which exportation of money earned in the UK in the form of remitances for their families overseas does to our own economy because it's not spent here. You'd be amazed how many places there are which will send your money overseas -virtually every corner shop here offers the service.

[Deleted User]

There is much truth in what you say GQ and just because something IS doesn't mean it's right! The wages ethic is very valid as is the sending money home not being a benefit to our home economy. I may have a biased viewpoint but I worked in Jobcentres for many years and had the pointy bit of dealing with Joe Public as you do in your job, they are not easy to deal with are they? Even way back the attitude I encountered time after time was that even though I've no qualifications and no experience I still want the same pay as those professionals who've trained and worked for years and I'm not going for a job that I don't think is good enough for me. Young folks who weren't able to read or write thier own name feeling that labouring jobs weren't good enough for them and wanting to work in a white collar position. The being in touch with reality is what's lacking along with enough jobs or enough clout to make employers pay a decent living wage. I have a horrid suspicion though that even if those factors were addressed a lot of our nation would still be very resistant to taking on the jobs that were available, me I'm the eternal cynic!!!

mardatha

I agree with GQ although i understand what you're saying too MrsL. We managed before and would do again if the policitians did their job and got things sorted. What is happening now is nonsense.

greenbee

Lyn, things have moved on now. They don't want white collar jobs, they want to be famous!

One reason migrant labour is used is because we (as customers) don't want to pay more for goods and services. If the labour was more expensive then no one would grow strawberries, they'd just plant more rapeseed. There would be fewer care home places. And longer hospital waiting lists (although nursing staff round here tend to be from the Philippines rather than the EU).

GreyQueen

Lyn, I was once (un)amused to encounter a very young man with the statement that he didn't get out of bed for less than £500 a week. Yup, even though he had no marketable skills, was barely literate and frankly idle. He wasn't easy on the eye and could neither sing nor dance. But he believed he was 'entitled' to the income of a skilled tradesman or professional grade worker with several years of advanced education.

But there are already provisions in the system for refusing to pay JSA to people who refuse to take jobs, or leave them for no good reason, or who aren't sufficiently active in their jobsearch (often defined as applying for 6 jobs per fortnight, hardly onerous IMO).

I'm a graduate working in a non-graduate job, as are most of my colleagues. I've also picked fruit and veggies, worked a production line, and as a cleaner. Can't see why anyone should feel themselves 'above' any kind of work or be allowed to take benefits because they don't like what's on offer. Tedious work for not a lot is often a motivator to upskill and get out of it.

During the course of my work, I encounter those who have been cruising quite happily on the dole for years, only to suddenly find full-time work once the JobCentre gets a bit heavy with them. The second sanction is usually the one which does the trick.;)

[Deleted User]

True GREENBEE, and man cannot live by rapeseed oil alone can he? I despair sometimes about what WILL be the solution to the ills besetting the world in 2014 and sadly the only solution I can see working is less people!!! The not wanting to pay the going rate for goods and services is a hard one to address as it seems most people actually think they have an entitlement to have the good life and all the accoutrements that go with it and feel terribly hard done by if they can't have it ALL, to the point of building debts to give the appearance of being able TO have it all. When oh when did it become the norm to live a rich mans lifestyle and have 4 holidays abroad a year, every new fashion each season and a change of decor and furniture when we get bored with what we've got now? If they were faced with paying the 'real' price for everything the discontent at discovering they weren't the affluent and upmarket folks they percieve themselves to be would cause a whole heap of problems.

My DD who teaches has to deal with a huge range of abilities with the young folks she teaches from the very bright to the very hard working but not academic and on the whole they are trying to do the best they can with the ability level they have but occasionally you get one who can be anywhere in the ability spectrum who will NOT do any thinking or work and they are the ones who are convinced that they'll be Famous so working isn't either cool or necessary as 'I'm going to have a really good idea and it will make me rich!' and the longer she teaches, the more of these are in the system. It's as though the whole world has lost its vision and direction about ethics and responsibility all round isn't it?

GreyQueen

Several of my friends teach high school and at sixth form colleges.

There are no end of premiership footballers-in-waiting and their wannabee WAGs and lots of other juvenile fantasists. And as your DD notes, more every year. The pal who does careers advice despairs of them.

If a lad hasn't been scouted by pro football by about 10, he isn't going to be a professional player. Because he's not bliddy good enough. And there a lot more pretty girls than there are rich men willing to keep a decorative but otherwise shallow woman. But the fantasy mill grinds on and on.

Righty, the sun has come out, I have made a flask of tea and have something farinacous of the YS variety and am going to get very real with my allotment.

Laters, GQ xx

[Deleted User]

Good luck with the Slug War GQ, I'm not really here, it's been a very long day already and it's not even 11 O Clock yet!!!