Preparedness for when

armyknife

VJsmum wrote: »

Re the suicides

I was listening g to the radio a short time ago about this subject - some of you may know that my BiL took his own life 4 years ago

The expert they had on said that 20 years ago the most common age group was 20 - 25 year old males. It doesn't take a maths expert to work out that this is the same group - and this is the group that BiL was in.

I wonder If something happened 40 odd years ago to affect these poor men.

If they were born in 1968 that would make the 16 year olds entering the work force in 1984, towards the end of the Thatcher recession and the culling of many manufacturing/basic jobs; young men no longer finding traditional form of employment?

GreyQueen

armyknife wrote: »

If they were born in 1968 that would make the 16 year olds entering the work force in 1984, towards the end of the Thatcher recession and the culling of many manufacturing/basic jobs; young men no longer finding traditional form of employment?

This is a very good point.

I am a fraction older than this cohort but only by a few years and can well remember the difficulty of trying to get employment as a young adult in the early eighties. I caught something in the media in recently years about how some of this age group never really recovered from this poor start and have been adversely affected ever since, and their children, too.

When I talk to my own father, who was a young man in the fifties and worked in manual jobs, he points out that a regular bloke could earn pretty good money even in labouring jobs, if he was prepared to put his back into it. Some of his peers were virtual illiterates but got on pretty well because the economy at the time had plenty of work for unskilled manual labour. There were jobs for everyone who wanted one, and a fair few who didn't, and the 'labour exchange' was exactly that; they had jobs listed and sent you off to the employer and they were expecting to hire you unless you really were totally unsuitable.

Dad recalled one incident on a building site where the desperate foreman was trying to source more labourers and was asking those he already had if they knew anyone who wanted a job. One bloke remarked that X person was available but that he wasn't much good.

Does he have a pulse?! was the response from the desperate foreman.

mardatha

It was still like that in the mid/late 60s when I left school GQ. But I still remember the 80s too with depression. That wasn't a good time.

Frugalsod

GreyQueen wrote: »

This is a very good point.

I am a fraction older than this cohort but only by a few years and can well remember the difficulty of trying to get employment as a young adult in the early eighties. I caught something in the media in recently years about how some of this age group never really recovered from this poor start and have been adversely affected ever since, and their children, too.

When I talk to my own father, who was a young man in the fifties and worked in manual jobs, he points out that a regular bloke could earn pretty good money even in labouring jobs, if he was prepared to put his back into it. Some of his peers were virtual illiterates but got on pretty well because the economy at the time had plenty of work for unskilled manual labour. There were jobs for everyone who wanted one, and a fair few who didn't, and the 'labour exchange' was exactly that; they had jobs listed and sent you off to the employer and they were expecting to hire you unless you really were totally unsuitable.

Dad recalled one incident on a building site where the desperate foreman was trying to source more labourers and was asking those he already had if they knew anyone who wanted a job. One bloke remarked that X person was available but that he wasn't much good.

Does he have a pulse?! was the response from the desperate foreman.

During the fifties and sixties you could literally walk out of a job one day and have a new job by the end of the week. Unemployment was around 0.5% officially because of the time lag between getting jobs, or people taking a break from work for a short while.

VJsmum

We have a file full of rejection letters OH got in 1982, when he entered into the job market. He left a good university with a law degree and couldn't get a job anywhere.

He eventually had to move over 200 miles away to work as a booking clerk in a tiny branch line station. From that he could work his way up, but it had taken him 6 months to even get that job.

mardatha

I used to start a job, not like it, and go and get another one the next day to start the following day. My husband was worse - sometimes he had 3 starts in a week!

thriftwizard

During the fifties and sixties you could literally walk out of a job one day and have a new job by the end of the week. Unemployment was around 0.5% officially because of the time lag between getting jobs, or people taking a break from work for a short while.

Sadly there are a lot of people round who think it's still like that & can't see that they've just been lucky; I've lost count of the rants I've heard about the !!!!less getting up off their arrises & getting a job, if the (insert racial slur of your choice) can do it, why can't the young/disabled/long term sick?! It's no good saying that there are no real jobs out there any more, that lots of people are on zero-hours contracts, etc. etc. because they're not going to let the truth interfere with their prejudices.

But we need to redefine our expectations. Schools are still working on the "study hard, do well, go to uni, get a job model" but they'd do better to encourage at least some of their pupils to make a job for themselves, and give them the tools to do so (i.e. tax workshops, website-building skills) as many colleges do. Several of DS1's year-group are still unemployed, having got good degrees but been unable to find jobs in their fields; they're 25 now and spend all their time playing computer games. It's sad to see; their lives are trickling away hopelessly because the model that we have trained them to live in is dwindling away now. If you ask me, they're at high risk of suicide; they don't go out because they don't have any money, they feel guilty for sponging off their parents (many of whom can't understand why they can't just get a job - any job) and the more rejections they get, the more hopeless they feel.

Yet they still think my elder daughter is mad & sad for not having gone to uni, but starting her own little business instead! Which wouldn't allow her to live independently yet, because she ploughs every penny of profit back in, but it's building steadily & she doesn't owe anybody anything.

Rant over… off to market now for the week's groceries!

Pollyjuice

Hi Guys,

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Happy reading.

[Deleted User]

I totally agree with you THRIFTWIZARD and feel that the education system we have currently is unfit for the purpose it exists for. I'm a 1948 birthday and went to a technical school in the 50s/60s in an area where the biggest employer was a Dockyard and there was the need for many apprentices who were then virtually going to be in a skilled job for life. I started work there in the civil service and it was a huge institution and the heart of the area I lived in. Boys even from secondary school were taught relevant skills to be engineers, carpenters, builders etc so the Dockyard had all the skilled folks it needed to function perfectly. But, and it's a big but as it became comprehensive education in this country the Dockyard started job cuts and ship building was outsourced and the skilled people were not needed as machinery was developed to do those jobs that had previously needed people. Eventually the Dockyard was shut and the area became very deprived and unemployment was and still is very high there. The education system is still in place teaching the same way and the same things to people who are now not motivated to learn as they know there is no work, why??? why not teach skills that may not send them on to higher education and a university place but skills that would enable them to perhaps start their own businesses, become successful in a practical job, become an employer of other people and change a lot of lives for the better. I'm not sure of the value of a university degree that leaves the graduate with thousands of pounds worth of debt and no prospect of a job in their chosen field and working in a restaurant chain as they cannot find alternative employment. Surely teaching people practical skills would allow then to earn a living from their own labours, be useful and fulfilled members of society and inspire others to use their own skills in a like manner?

VJsmum

That's what I find so frustrating about the degree I teach. It is a highly vocational degree, our average graduate salary is £27000 but, because we are a "second stream university" or former Polytechnic, we are very much looked down on by parents and schools alike who want their kids at Russell Group unis. And yet, our graduate employment record is fantastic, and in those league tables we Are very high up. But ours are unusual degree titles (in the Construction industry) and, unless you know they exist you errr wouldn't know they exist
(Not very academic after all, am I?)

My DS is not very academic, at 15 has already said he doesn't want to go to uni and, in fact, wants to be a train driver. I am all for it - he will have to start at the bottom,as his dad did, and work his way up (you'll be relieved to know that you don't get 18 year old train drivers ). He loves the railways, always has, and what could be better than getting paid to do something you love? In fact, my DS has a lot of "nouse" and I can see him higher up the management ranks than driver. (The truth is that I think train driving must be bliddy boring, but if he likes it what's it to me?)