Preparedness for when

Hardup_Hester

Thanks for that Bob, there is a B & M near us, I'll have a look next week once we've been paid.

Perplexed_Pineapple

GreyQueen wrote: »

PP, I caught that on either the PM programme (5-6) or the 6 O'Clock News on Radio 4, I tend to have them on back-to-back in whilst pottering about. Probably PM.

Sir Ian Fells was talking about how they know fine well if the power goes off in cities that the supermarket shelves will be stripped bare in 5 mins. Not sure if he meant looted-bare or panic-shopped bare, but he's a specialist in this field with a string of honours to his name if you google him, so I give credence to his comments. And it was about 18 months ago I heard some other energy specialists being interviewed and they sounded genuinely, but in a quiet and professional way, frightened about their ability to keep the lights on.

It is also becoming more of a problem faster than was anticipated a couple of years ago as electricity generating plants are taken offline before their replacments have even been built. As in, problems of generating capacity will be apparent in the next few months. I don't know if the takedown of existing stations is permanant or effectively a mothballing exercise, and if they could be unwrapped, oiled up and set going again in a crisis. Lots of industrial stuff doesn't work like that.

I'm only a lay person, although I consider myself a reasonably-intelligent woman. To me, if we have X amount of capacity for generating Kwh, and are using it, and some of that capacity goes away, someone is going to be short of electricity, no?

If we start to get into a pattern of brown-outs and erratic supply, there will be runs on alternative methods of lighting. It's easy to predict that anyone thinking of turfing out their unwanted candles to the c.s. or bootsale will hang on to them, and there goes my major source of supply. And that there will be runs on parafin laterns, torches, Sunnen lamps and all sorts of alternative things which are available quite reasonably. Runs on things often translates into price-gouging and re-selling at high rates.

Sooo, the smart money is getting theirs now, and if you have a bit more than you need, you can share with family and friends.

Thanks for that GQ, it was indeed the PM programme yesterday, it's still available on the web and Sir Ian Fells appears at about 22 minutes in if anyone wants to listen, I think it's well worth it, very interesting.

Bedsit Bob, I've been thinking about what you said about making a rapid move with the BOB, you're clearly right about the difficulties of getting around rapidly on foot carrying a large amount of gear. I'm thinking the only realistic options if you envisage bugging out on foot are to keep your gear very light indeed, or if you want to take more, to train to carry it. Nothing like carrying your bag for 15 miles to really concentrate the mind on what is really essential! So when I've got my BOB a bit more together I'll try going for a few walks with it. I've done well on the OS theme with this, I'm using a approx 40L canvas backpack from a family member who bought it in the 1950s-ish, by the look of it

markdebby

Hester, these heater only last about two hrs per canister. We have one in the boat

JayneC

Evening,

I got chucked off last night too, was trying to post but can't remember what I was saying now:o

Spent a couple of hours yesterday dodging the sleet at the lottie and did a bit of weeding, today = glorious sunshine, go figure:cool: did manage an hour there before DD2 and kiddies came to visit and nothing much is showing itself. Onions are slowly coming along and some spuds have peeked through and been earthed up, but seeds are s l o w , the oriental greens and radish are the only ones showing any signs of life:( But the fruit trees are full of blossom and strawberries are starting to flower so hopefully it won't be a complete non starter. Have resorted to slug pellets already tho, they've been at my seedlings at home:(

I've been reading the 'Long Descent' which is quite interesting. Traded in a couple of books at Amazon and so decided to indulge myself with the proceeds (usually save things like this + survey vouchers for xmas and birthday gifts)
The point is made about health and how sanitation etc may affect our health, as well as limited access to medicines and health care. With this in mind I've been considering refuse and disposing of stuff. Particularly foodstuffs and particularly if water is an issue for washing. As I have a dog and chicks most of the leftovers (of which there is very little it has to be said;)) of cooked food can be fed to them and of course veg/fruit peelings as well as paper and card can mostly be composted. I am now planning a wormery too, I have copious amounts of wood so am going to have a crack at building one, as some cooked food can be fed to worms. Am also considering a bokashi composter as that also takes cooked food ( I'm thinking mainly bones here) I'm trying to make sure anything disposed of is not going to attract vermin/disease. I do know that doesn't account for other people's rubbish but I hope that if I have a system going that works I would be able to show others how to do it too, after all it will be in everyone's interests. I'm also pondering a composting loo system. Not sure I will actually install one at the moment but if I have the means to get one set up in an emergency we'll be ready to go as it were

Have withdrawn some extra cash yesterday, just in case y'know:p I'm not expecting any disaster but better safe than sorry eh?

Well after deliberating for a couple of days I decided to take the antibiotics, just have to remember to finish the course now. I am notoriously rubbish at taking tablets:p

I'm another one expecting power cuts in the not too distant future. As well as everything else the grid itself is getting old and in need of updating but this is just not going to get done really is it, so we have limited production capacity, disruptions in supply are highly likely, as we depend on imports and there is so much instability around, and the grid itself is not equipped to deal with increasing capacity anyway, so power cuts, it would seem, are inevitable:(
I have to admit though I'm not especially prepared, although I do have my woodburner. Also have a camping stove but only one spare gas canister, tho could do some limited cooking in the woodburner. I could improvise a BBQ or similar outside too. But I've not much in the way of alternative lighting. I have some candles and tea-lights and a torch and camping lantern but need to have a stock of batteries. I have 2 windup torches but I find they drain really quickly and one seems to have stopped working altogether. I have 3 small oil lamps but would have to improvise with cooking oil as I have no paraffin. Need to get my arris into gear.

Well am going to read some more in bed. May even resort to HWB again (had it last night as it was frizzin).

Keep safe all x

GreyQueen

PP, a canvas backpack is going to be a lot heavier than a modern one, and will get heavier still when it gets wet. I do say when and not if as this is Blighty after all, and wetness is something we do rather well.

Generally speaking, no backpack, no matter how singing and dancing, expensive and new, is waterproof. This is because of the amount of thru-stitching they have. So, you need to anticipate that the contents will get wet unless you take preventative measures.

One way is to poly-bag anything inside the backpack separately and you can get heavy duty ziploc type bags from army surplus stores. Another way is to have a backpack cover (see any camping store) and yet another is to put stuff in dry-bags inside.

I currently have a heavy duty drybag lining the main compartment of my BOB. The disadvantage is that it adds weight. I'm considering taking it out and relying on the ziplocs and the raincover alone. Getting your stuff wet isn't something to take lightly as if you're living out of doors and can't keep dry, you risk hyperthermia.

Will think on. The drysack would effectively protect the contents if I was plunging into rivers, and could even serve as a flotation device, but we don't have any large ones of those between me and anywhere I need to go.

Training to carry a bag is excellent as it will be a wakeup call to know what you can realistically achieve if you ever have to look at heading out on foot. A good bit of advice I was given many moons ago, back when I'd actually did hike long distances with a full pack (pre-ME) was that one mile fully laden wearies you like three miles unladen. I found that to be a fair description.

I would recommend bags with a chest-compression strap (to hold the straps together and stop them slipping back over your shoulders) and a hip-belt, as these really distribute the load. You shuld also pack a rucksack so that the heaviest items are highest up and closest to your back.

My family are 30 miles from me. I couldn't walk that in one day, laden or unladen, but I could do it in two or bike it in well under one day. By car its 45 mins door to door, or about an hour from centre to centre by coach. But relying on motorised transport is a dangerous game when areas can easily gridlock on any day of the week and the roads get blocked with regular car accidents. So, I think I need to know my strengths in case I have to scarper under GQ-power alone.

It's also useful to think slightly off-piste; if you have a reasonable surface, even if it is an unmade track, you can cycle. Or even use a shopping trolley. I'm shortly to size up Mum's pushbike with a view to swopping it for my own (her suggestion, as she seldom uses a bike and mine is 20 years old and very well-used). If the frame size will work for my gangling legs, I'll take it and have some changes made esp solid tyres.

An unpuncturable tyre brings great peace of mind as you go about your daily business, but if SHTF and there is debris on the roads, or you're having to go off-road, solid tyres could see you rolling when otherwise you'd have ground to a halt.

You can cover an awful lot of ground on a pushbike and you don't have to be a super-athlete to achieve it, either. There are also other methods of getting about and transferring large loads without busting a gut, and depending on the topography, some may work for you.

I once had a hoiday which involved ocean kayaking in inshore waters and camping out. You just brought your personal duds and the company provided everything else. We were 3 double ocean kayaks and one single kayak. I was gobsmacked at how easy these are to manoever and how they can get into and out of shallow areas, but what really astonished me was the amount of kit they were concealing inside their hatches; tents and other stuff inc stoves and big steel cooking pots.

More prosacically, if you live near a river and have a boat or canoe/ kayak, perhaps you already have an alternative means of getting out of Dodge and into a less-populated area, a means which isn't going to be gridlocked with traffic? And mebbe you aleady know a few little nooks which aren't accessible other than by water, and so are likely to be safer places to hide from the zombies?

JayneC, I've done the old HWB these past two nights, too. Ridiculous for this time of year.

Re hygiene, there is a blogpost going around the web from a man who goes by "Selco" - you can find it on UK Prepper among other places. I read it elsewhere sometime ago and the hosting blog said that it had been traced to a Bosnian IP address but other than that, they could not vouch for its authenticity.

Selco's post was about spending a year stuck inside a small town beseiged by enemy forces during the Bosnian war. As with all things interwebby, one has to exercise discretion about what one believes, but I find it a commonsensical and believeable account. He remarks, among many other things, about hygiene difficulties, esp dealing with waste and how you need to have a lot of things like rubbish bags, disinfectants etc. I think he said that two members of his 15 strong extended family were lost to disease which should have been preventable.

I have grave reservations about the livability of my neighbourhood if we had no running water or sewage service. You live in a tiny flat like mine and you can't have an outhouse dug ready in the back yard. And I can be as fastidious as I like, but diseases won't spare me if they're being spread by others. So, I would consider a prolonged santitation-down situation justification on its own for bugging out.

You don't need to be munched by a zombie or hit by a passing bullet; them microbes are after us, always.

[Deleted User]

GQ I always shop with my rucksack, and I always manage to get more in than I think possible, other than the embarassment of it being so overloaded one time that I got up off the seat of the bus and promptly fell over backwards onto those 2 little steps up that lead to the back seats, I find it is a really useful way of getting used to carrying fair weights. Mind I usually end up with shopping bags as well so I have gorilla arms too most of the time, Cheers Lyn xxx.

GreyQueen

MrsLurcherwalker wrote: »

GQ I always shop with my rucksack, and I always manage to get more in than I think possible, other than the embarassment of it being so overloaded one time that I got up off the seat of the bus and promptly fell over backwards onto those 2 little steps up that lead to the back seats, I find it is a really useful way of getting used to carrying fair weights. Mind I usually end up with shopping bags as well so I have gorilla arms too most of the time, Cheers Lyn xxx.

Years ago, I rode the train from Scotland to Heysham, heading for the Isle of Man ferry. Hauled the backpack off the train and onto the platform, squatted to insert my shoulders into the straps then tried to stand up.

As in tried several times. A passing woman took pity and boosted it up so's I could get to my feet. And I have seen backpackers overturned like turtles, legs in the air, laughing fit to burst because they can't get up............:rotfl:

Perplexed_Pineapple

GQ, I've done some back-packing in my time, as always you are right about the issues of weight distribution and waterproofing, The cheaper option is to use a plastic bin-bag inside your pack to hold everything, not as tough as zip-lok bags but very lightweight so you can carry a couple of spares (and then you can always use one as an emergency poncho if need be) and obviously cost only pennies. The reason I like the idea of the canvas pack is I think even my limited sewing skills would be up to repairing it, while a modern synthetic bag once damaged might be quite tricky to fix? A push-bike is a really good idea for the sort of scenario where you might have to evacuate from an urban centre, good for covering ground relatively quickly and you're unlikely to be too troubled if the roads get gridlocked by trafffic. Most cities have cycle paths leading out of town, often along canal towpaths for example, that keep you off the main roads. Kevlar lined tyres prevent most punctures and although slightly pricy, are more comfortable to ride on than solid if you use a bike day-to-day and not just for SHTF events.
I've known a few people who were caught up in the Yugoslav wars. What came across as really scary was the rapidity with which communites broke down. Previously friendly neighbours became the enemy as people took sides along ethnic /religious grounds, and people had to get out fast with what they could carry. I met one chap who had hitch-hiked across Europe with the clothes he stood up in, a very small amount of cash that went rapidly and a guitar (he still has the guitar). I can't see that sort of thing happening here, but I guess neither could they.

elona

DH has comandeered the Sunnan solar lights for the living room and at around £14 each I was a bit miffed.

Just found solar lamps at ama**n for £4.39 each and free postage. They take a while to arrive as they are shipped from Hong Kong but at that price they are worth a go so ordered three. If they work then we have some light in three bedrooms if you know what hits the fan.

We are in our sixties with three dds at home most of the time and have nowhere to bug to better than where we are. Kelly kettle and candles are hidden away and some extra food stuffs bought as they were either bargains or were about to shoot up in price. DH does not object as long as they are not perceived as prepping but as way of saving money and time.

DH got a portable gas heater for winter and has a contact to get gas canisters delivered so hoping that if there is a lot of demand in the future we get some priority as existing customers.

Need to get on with making lunch so see you all later.

GreyQueen

PP, I work with a guy who served in Bosnia. Haircurling what happened there, and how quickly unspeakable events become everyday events.

I think the issue is when a crisis happens is that there is a very narrow window when evasive action is possible, which might be anything from mere minutes, hours, a few days or a few weeks.

If that window closes, you're stuck with where you are and with whatever resources you have to hand.

A little later on when people were being driven out of (I think?) Montenego, their neighbours were lining the streets to jeer and throw things and then went on to loot their homes and sometimes even move into them and take them over.

I was watching that on TV with my Dad, a lifelong student of history and expressing my disgust that people would do such things against their neighbours. He asked me quietly if I thought it would be any different here? That set me back on my heels a bit, and I gave it thought and concluded that it probably wouldn't be any different here. The people of the former Yugoslavia aren't a different species to the rest of us but some of them did dreadful things when they had the opportunity.

I guess that is the salient fact; opportunity to rob, murder, rape and steal, seemingly with impunity because law and order has broken down and no one will be able to stop you now or punish you later. I guess it's good to remember that the most dangerous creatures on this planet are young men in groups, and there's no difference now.

re backpacks:

I would think that given a good needle (those very strong ones with the triangular cross-section, can't recall what they're called) a nylon pack is as repairable as a canvas one, but each to their own and it's good to make use of what you have. I once dismantled a knackered backpack to cannibalise it for the fabric and the webbing and it's easily done with a stitch ripper and the cloth can be sewn together on an ordinary machine or sewn by hand with a very strong polyester thread.

I've just been spending money at Goo Ooot........ things I planned to buy anyway, but was taking advantage of the extra 15% off. Got a pair of trousers, a Maglite solitaire, a whistle and a tiny SAK for my keyring. Could have spent shedloads more in there but must be a realist; I have a tiny backpacking tent because I don't have a car to go camping with, so have to carry everything with me.

But it's a wee gem, weights about the same as a bag of sugar and has stood up to some terrible weather. 5000 HH vs Atlantic storms - bring it on.

Clootiesmum, thank you for thinking of me but I shall ahve to pass; I only have a 20" wide airing cupboard so was thinking of maybe another towel or two and a cellular blanket, not much room for anything else. I'm a firm believer in hanging on to textiles as they mostly keep pretty nicely and you do eventually wear out your existing stock.

Hokey, need to have a tidy round, a light luncheon and then off to the lottie to scrabble in the dirt for a few hours before dropping in on my pal for tea.

Laters, GQ xx