Energy meter reader trespass??

chanz4

By the way op, do you complain when you don't get actual bills?

Terrylw1

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

Well lets use a scenario: A lady is sunbathing naked in her private back garden, as she is fully entitled to do. The meter reader turns up and rings the bell, but she doesn't hear it. So the meter reader knows that the meter is at the back of the house, and that you can access it by a side gate. Now the fact that the gate is closed should be enough to say that the house owner doesn't want people going into the back garden. But the meter reader still thinks he has the right to enter the back garden, so he tries the gate. The gate is locked, so he reaches over the top and finds a bolt. He unfastens the bolt, and enters the rear garden, and then finds himself standing over the lady. She screams thinking that he is a pervert, runs inside and calls the police.

Now without going into the possible outcome, do you think that the meter reader had the right to invade this lady's privacy? There were two barriers (both the gate and the bolt), but he still assumed that he had the right to enter the back garden.

At least she could pull witnesses into the issue...with them being glued to their back bedroom windows!

No disrespect to anyone on either side of the argument, but some things to consider:

- what was done before deregulation? So, is this a new practice or something carried forward from the old boards? Has it come due to pressure from suppliers regarding No Access %'s and the readers managers suggesting it?

- what is the legal stance on this? If they are allowed by law, the homeowner doesn't have much ground and in the case of the naked sunbather, the meter reader wouldn't be held responsible for legally endorsed actions that go awry due to the customer doing that.

- they also look through your windows at times as they confirm if properties are vacant or occupied this way. This was around before deregulation but is it right? Personally, I hate this and would be very unpleasant about it if it happens.

UK1, glad you have got somewhere. I would suggest you get that in writing because its possible that district manager has lied to get out of a difficult situation...I've heard all sorts of garbage over the years which often appears on this board. He could easily add a note to the handheld to say "do not try to access via gates" so you think its sorted as you never see it again, but it carries on. If you have it in writing, great, it can be used? Its also possible that via customer complaints, ifs forced a change in process?

Terrylw1

Just found an Ofgem document from 2004 with a section on this and it does state that readers do not have an automatic right of access, even to read an outside meter, without permission from the occupant or owner.

Its a gas one though but I suspect it would be the same in elec. Its a bit old though.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Ylchy6UZj2sJ:www.ofgem.gov.uk/Markets/sm/metering/crf/metrology/am/gmr/Documents1/Meter%2520Reader%2520Guidance%2520Notes.pdf+rights+of+entry+uk+meter+readers&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgSAbVmdVX0c2SaEubIULbofj6VgVljOkH656r8VhC3wEmOT6FNa9E7pvq8wP-KvzMCTQnk7L8kFUo3nkrtHOO9UGTYXDdHRFcX7NMcBaPChxK3lV8ncIgzbHQGM-qP6j9q8Je9&sig=AHIEtbSwps_etLZaVbS13XpEAuWPAwF-Qw

[Deleted User]

apologies for assuming that the latest story re self defence of property had anything to do with your assertions of "changing uk attitudes " which included a veiled threat of violence from you to anyone who enters your domain.
I have been over thirteen years entering properties via side gates to access meters at side and rear and in that time have had only had one or two encounters with objectors. A gate which is either shut by various means be it latch, gate latch, hook, chains with locks which are meant to look locked but are not locked, top bolt, bit of string, etc etc. anyone who s interested in stopping anyone entering the rear ( and thats what I do at my property ) makes sure that theres a proper lock on the top bolt or other gate fastening.and that i suppose would include naked sun bathers, of which I have never seen. also in the many hundreds and thousands of properties I have visited.
uk1, please do me a big favour please if you will and stick a clip of your irrefutable evedence of this meter reader deliberately running over your ornament on Youtube, it will go down well I think.
finally, my last word i promise, G4S and the Utilitys do make compensations whether they are right or wrong, just to keep customers happy. we had a guy in Conisborough , S. yorks( theres my location uk1 ) who had made a statement to a meter reader that the next one who knocks on his door for readings "will be shot ", for which EDF awarded this man £50 compensation for his inconvenience.All meter readers now have been blocked from ever visiting this property again. i suspect that is what will happen with you, you wont get any more visits ever again. from meter readers attempting to "burgle" you.

uk1

Your problem is that most other people in the world get's it but you.

I'll say it one more time in big words.

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER A PRIVATE PROPERTY WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF THE OWNER OR A MAGISTRATE OR JUDGE.

Not everyone else BUT you. YOU.

It's hugely funny that you say "I'm not trying to be a model employee" whist trashing your companies reputation, calling it's management liars and their customers liars and other names.

If you were half decent human being you would stop taking the salary and allow a person who would really love your job the opportunity of doing the job well, and who shows respect for their employer, it's management and the customer. That fact that you spend your time trashing your employer and it's customers on forums says it all.

jalexa

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Just found an Ofgem document from 2004 with a section on this and it does state that readers do not have an automatic right of access, even to read an outside meter, without permission from the occupant or owner.

A sort of interesting document which contains a "killer" recommendation for suppliers to gain consent.

Surprise surprise, this is from the current (or recent) Edf t&cs. Doubt other suppliers are much different.

"2a You confirm that you are legally able to, and have permission to, allow us into the premises and have full access to your meter (or meters) whenever we need to in line with these terms."

I haven't been following this thread so that explains why I have not thanked my "bros".:D

As a "pithy aside" whether the meter reader should be (legally) worried about the pot crushing video depends on whether there were signs advising of CCTV being recorded.

uk1

jalexa wrote: »

A sort of interesting document which contains a "killer" recommendation for suppliers to gain consent.

Surprise surprise, this is from the current (or recent) Edf t&cs. Doubt other suppliers are much different.

"2a You confirm that you are legally able to, and have permission to, allow us into the premises and have full access to your meter (or meters) whenever we need to in line with these terms."

I haven't been following this thread so that explains why I have not thanked my "bros".:D

As a "pithy aside" whether the meter reader should be (legally) worried about the pot crushing video depends on whether there were signs advising of CCTV being recorded.

I am sorry that you have missed the opportunity of thanking your Bros. Clearly an admirer of Jamaican gang patois. Presumably this means that you are another meter reader. Apparently without a basic grasp of the English Language.

I'll try and translate for you. Using your text:

"allow us into the premises and have full access to your meter (or meters) whenever we need "

Do you not see that this means you ask and we allow. I cannot allow if I am not asked. When asked I ALWAYS allow. No problem there then. If it meant what you would like it to mean it would say

"allow our meter readers onto and into your premises without an appointment and at any time of our choosing and you also consent to us opening gates and doors to look for the meters without seeking permission first."

I know it's difficult for you to see the difference but I hope I have helped.

With respect to your other comment

"As a "pithy aside" whether the meter reader should be (legally) worried about the pot crushing video depends on whether there were signs advising of CCTV being recorded"

I'd stick at the meter reading rather than the legal stuff.

CCTV on private properties for security puproses do not require any signage. It is only CCTV in public places. I know that meter readers cannot grasp this - but private homes are not public places. As it happens there are large signs around the property in order to deter. But the deterrent only works for people that can read. This might be were it went wrong in our case. The big cameras and the signs didn't work. In any event - having a sign up or not doesn't confer immunity on meter readers to vandalise properties if they think they can get away with it - whatever it is you think that you know.

Just to preserve continuity and just so that some of us clueless customers can form a picture - can you confirm that you are (a) a meter reader and (b) also work for G4S?

jalexa

uk1 wrote: »

I am sorry that you have missed the opportunity of thanking your Bros. Clearly an admirer of Jamaican gang patois. Presumably this means that you are another meter reader. Apparently without a basic grasp of the English Language.

I'll try and translate for you. Using your text:

"allow us into the premises and have full access to your meter (or meters) whenever we need "

Do you not see that this means you ask and we allow. I cannot allow if I am not asked. When asked I ALWAYS allow. No problem there then. If it meant what you would like it to mean it would say

"allow our meter readers onto and into your premises without an appointment and at any time of our choosing and you also consent to us opening gates and doors to look for the meters without seeking permission first."

I know it's difficult for you to see the difference but I hope I have helped.

With respect to your other comment

"As a "pithy aside" whether the meter reader should be (legally) worried about the pot crushing video depends on whether there were signs advising of CCTV being recorded"

I'd stick at the meter reading rather than the legal stuff.

CCTV on private properties for security puproses do not require any signage. It is only CCTV in public places. I know that meter readers cannot grasp this - but private homes are not public places. As it happens there are large signs around the property in order to deter. But the deterrent only works for people that can read. This might be were it went wrong in our case. The big cameras and the signs didn't work. In any event - having a sign up or not doesn't confer immunity on meter readers to vandalise properties if they think they can get away with it - whatever it is you think that you know.

Just to preserve continuity and just so that some of us clueless customers can form a picture - can you confirm that you are (a) a meter reader and (b) also work for G4S?

I have quoted your whole poisonous diatribe to preserve it against deletion. Ignoring the wholly unnecessary personal comment made in response a short post (to another poster) about a regulatory t&c issue, I will just make one further comment which no doubt you will correct me on, or dig a deeper character hole, if I am wrong. Given time there may be informed legal opinion about the issue from others.

Regarding "CCTV on private properties for security purposes do not require any signage", while there is no legal requirement on a private householder to display signage, content captured without signage, including from private property, is not admissible in a court of law. That was the context of including "(legally)" in my comment.

uk1

jalexa wrote: »

I have quoted your whole poisonous diatribe to preserve it against deletion. Ignoring the wholly unnecessary personal comment made in a short post about a regulatory t&c issue, I will just make one further comment which no doubt you will correct me on, or dig a deeper character hole, if I am wrong. Given time there may be informed legal opinion about the issue from others.

Regarding "CCTV on private properties for security puproses do not require any signage", while there is no legal requirement on the private householder to display signage, content captured without signage, including from private property, is not admissible in a court of law. The was the context of including "(legally)" in my comment.

Actually you didn't quote my whole "poisonous diatribe" when you said how sorry you were for not thanking your "Bros" - and you are wrong .... but as I said the signs are there for those that can read.

You genuinely believe that when householders provide CCTV footage to the police for their prosecutions against vandalism that the first thing the Police do is ask to see the sign and if it isn't there - they say "sorry gov - no can do - no sign no evidence!" When did you ever hear that? When you see those programmes on TV where scalleywags throw bricks and vandalise homes - do you think the first question police ask is "where are the warning signs warning the vandals they are being filemed? What planet are you on?

We do need more meter readers with presumed legal knowledge don't we.

So just to be clear. I'm an eon customer who has their meter read by G4S meter readers. On one occaision they opened a garage door whilst I wasn't at home and (I presume) accidently scratched an expensive car. I had to pay for that. On another occaision my property was purposefully damaged. So my agenda is simple. Meter readers do not try to gain access through doors or gates without asking first. What is wrong with that? You now know who I am.

So - are you (a) a meter reader and (b) employed by G4S?

MothballsWallet

undaunted wrote: »

Actually I did not interpret the term "Wikipedia" did. There is in reality no such thing as an ostritch tribe in the terms you suggest it can therefore only be "management" who have misinterpreted the meanings and attributes of this tribe.

The only thing management never misinterpret is their pay rise.