Leeds city council parking fine.......

foaly88

I've recently had exactly the same experience at exactly the same place. I parked in a bay on Edward Street and, not knowing the area very well, looked around for the closest parking meter—which was in the private car park. Didn't even have to jump across the low wooden beams to get into the car park because most of them are missing. To me, it seemed like the bays were part of the car park, and there are no signs to say otherwise. The nearest council parking meter is hidden round the corner, completely out of sight.

I would appeal on those grounds. However, the council didn't tell me the full reason for the parking ticket until after I'd appealed against the pretty vague claim that 'no valid pay and display ticket was displayed', and so now they've given me the option to either pay the £25 or appeal again and have it automatically doubled if I lose. Also, annoyingly, my next appeal apparently has to be justified against the council's limited logic:

"Representations can only be made on the following grounds:

a) the alleged contravention did not occur
b) I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time
c) the vehicle had been permitted to remain at rest in the place in question by a person who was in control of the vehicle without the consent of the owner
d) we are a hire firm and the vehicle in question was at that material time hired under a hiring agreement; and the person hiring it has signed a statement accepting liability
e) the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case
f) the Traffic Order was invalid
g) there has been procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority
h) that the penalty charge has already been paid in full, or has been paid at the reduced amount within the specified period"

So I'm not really sure what to do. Jiggystar, did you have any luck with your appeal in the end? I'm not sure whether to pay up now, or to continue against them. They're basically con artists: if this has been happening a lot, why don't they just put up a couple of signs to show people where to pay? Any advice is appreciated.

Coupon-mad

Most people do win if they appeal further and to an adjudicator if necessary, particularly if they get help from pepipoo forums. Start a new topic here with pics of all sides of all letters, starting with the PCN:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

foaly88 wrote: »

...now they've given me the option to either pay the £25 or appeal again and have it automatically doubled if I lose.

That's the normal procedure, everyone gets to that stage, all or nothing. Carry on and forget the bribe of the discount - it's never relevant if you want to win an appeal because almost NO-ONE gets a first informal appeal accepted.

foaly88 wrote: »

Also, annoyingly, my next appeal apparently has to be justified against the council's limited logic...

No, not their logic, those are the statutory appeal points. You can tick more than one box, including 'the contravention did not occur' which is most common for cases where you are saying it wasn't clear therefore you can't have committed a contravention.

You will need to quickly email the Council for a copy of the Traffic Order for that place - unless it's linked under Traffic Orders on their website. You need to read the Order (a boring but necessary document) to know what it stipulates. Also see if the website has a Code of Practice or Charter for PCN enforcement - read it. You'd be looking for omissions and anything that helps your appeal.

There's more though so start a new thread on pepipoo with pics of all sides, all small print, on all letters, and a pic of where you parked (GSV link will do if it's still the same view now). No need to post it all here but just let's see a link to your pepipoo thread so others here can follow it.

mam2014

Hello everyone,

I have received a PCN stating I was parked in the same spot for more than the allowed time. Traffic Order (2 hours, no return within 1 hour). Details are as below. the fact is my car was not parked in the same area for one hour between 10am - 11am but the CEO has worked out the car was there and therefore my appeal has been turned down initially. I am wondering what should I do to prove I wasn't parked for the one hour. I do have a transaction receipt from the place where I went between 10am - 11am. I returned after the stipulated one hour and parked in almost exactly the same spot and bay as I had parked earlier (due to limited availability). This second parking was observed by the CEO where he has a system that he marks the valve positions of each car and their position and monitors if this has changed. In my case, this system has not worked at all as I wasn't in the area (was 5 miles away) and if the valve positions are exactly in the same position which is a very small possibility, but apparently has happened according to CEO, then it will be difficult for me to prove otherwise. Should I ask for photographic evidence from the CEO as it is my word against his?

8am - 10am (Parked for 2 hours)
10am - 11am (Not parked on as I was not in the area)
11:05am - 11:43am (Well within the next 2 hours limit of 11am - 1pm when PCN was issued)

Has anyone experienced such an incident before and can guide on what to do next? If I don't pay, then I should be receiving an NtO pretty soon and if I do go ahead with the formal appeal. will it mean involving the courts etc?

Thanks for your help.
MAM..

---

Your vehicle was parked in contravention of the waiting restrictions in force where parking is permitted for 2 hours, no return with 1 hour. Your vehicle was first observed at 8.55 and again at 11.43 where it was noted that it was parked for longer than permitted. The restrictions are clearly shown in accordance with Road Traffic Legislation.

I have noted your comments and would advise that the CEO recorded the valve positions on the vehicle to which he noted had not changed when he made his second observation, therefore indicating that the vehicle had been parked for longer than permitted.

It is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that their vehicle is parked in accordance with the restrictions in force.

I have considered everything in your letter but do not feel that you have made grounds for cancelling the PCN.

---

Dee140157

If you look earlier in this thread you will see the advice is to take council PCNs over to pepipoo.com. This forum deals with private PCNs.

And don't hijack someone's thread over there, start you own. Post images (redacted) of PCN for people to see.