Withdrawal Fee's Thomas C Adams

spadge_2356

OK so I'm confident that I can fight this fee based on what you're telling me. I am waiting to receive a copy of my contract in the post and a copy of the EA's complaints procedure.

My next question is. When I write my complaint letter what should I put in it? Should I just flatly refuse to pay the fee?

Again if anyone has any alternative advice please let me know (I'd like to look at all options)

notts_phil

You just need to lay it on the line to them

hazyjo

If they were so useless, why did you instruct them a second time?

If they 'guaranteed' appointments for a set day (open house viewing?) then maybe you can try to claim that money back.

No agent guarantees to sell a house (unless you're talking silly money). If it was on for £75k and you had an offer for £73k, I dunno why you didn't bite their arm off. Even if you were still marketing at £80k at that time, it's still less than the 10% off that a lot of people are offering. Did you go back with a counter offer? I don't think £73k is unrealistic at all.

You will always get viewers who say it's not what they're looking for. That is not down to the EA. The viewers have details (presumably) and a pair of eyes and a brain (again, all presumably!) and it's up to them to assess whether it's suitable. I had many viewers for the 3rd home I sold who banged on about the second bedroom being a single. Well, the details did say that, and the dimensions were clearly stated.

When you say 'lied' about what properties in your street have sold for... were they marketing them? Was this after completion, or when the offer was first agreed? Offers are often dropped prior to completion.

If you instructed them a second time and they'd waived their fee after you withdrew your house for whatever reason the first time, I really can't see how you can object to them charging you for it (when it was stated in the contract you (presumably) read and signed).

Jx

spadge_2356

hazyjo wrote: »

If they were so useless, why did you instruct them a second time?

If they 'guaranteed' appointments for a set day (open house viewing?) then maybe you can try to claim that money back.

No agent guarantees to sell a house (unless you're talking silly money). If it was on for £75k and you had an offer for £73k, I dunno why you didn't bite their arm off. Even if you were still marketing at £80k at that time, it's still less than the 10% off that a lot of people are offering. Did you go back with a counter offer? I don't think £73k is unrealistic at all.

You will always get viewers who say it's not what they're looking for. That is not down to the EA. The viewers have details (presumably) and a pair of eyes and a brain (again, all presumably!) and it's up to them to assess whether it's suitable. I had many viewers for the 3rd home I sold who banged on about the second bedroom being a single. Well, the details did say that, and the dimensions were clearly stated.

When you say 'lied' about what properties in your street have sold for... were they marketing them? Was this after completion, or when the offer was first agreed? Offers are often dropped prior to completion.

If you instructed them a second time and they'd waived their fee after you withdrew your house for whatever reason the first time, I really can't see how you can object to them charging you for it (when it was stated in the contract you (presumably) read and signed).

Jx

Let me get a few things clear:

They weren't useless the first time just the second time. We pulled out due to problems at home, we decided to go back with them because it was less hasstle taking new pictures, putting it on rightmove etc

I agree the offer was realistic I put in a counter offer of £74,500 and agreed to leave the sofa, double bed, wardrobe, and some white goods, eventually expecting to agree on £74k but direct quote from the EA "he stuck his nose up at it" and that was that

I know the EA isn't guaranteed to sell the house I just expect them to do a proper job to sell the house and try and anticipate the buyers needs. The guy walked into the kitchen and said he was told it was a two bed and walked back out again. Its no good showing the customer a static caravan if they're after a town house (extreme example) how would you expect anyone to buy the place?

The initial contract did NOT have a withdrawal fee, the second one did hence the problem I'm detailing here

My argument is, since I already paid £70 towards marketing and admin fee's they say they want me to pay and they provided a bad service why should I have to pay? I also paid them £90 at the start of the first agreement I withdrew from for and EPC so technically that's £160 inc VAT I've paid for admin and marketing.

At the very most if I owed them anything it would be a cheque for £80, but I have put together a strongly worded letter to the MD asking them to justify what the fee covers exactly. It seems exorbitant!

clairej05

having worked for some of the larger estate agency chains 'withdrawal' fees are quite common. From reading your post it seems there are two issues here:

1. that you can not afford to pay the amount and

2. that even if you could, you do not feel you should pay it.

firstly it is common practice for estate agents to charge such withdrawal fees. gone are the days when selling properties was easy and most agents would operate no sale no fee. they charge the fees as most estate agents do not sell every single house they put on the market so it covers things like for sale boards, advertising etc.

some estate agents charge it but when people complain they don't pursue it because in the grand scheme of things its not a lot of money to them (they earn much more for selling) so the cost of pursuing it outweighs actually collecting it.

however i know of several 'big names' that don't back down, and know of several cases that have ended up in court. looking at case law and having worked in complaints departments myself i know that generally if there is a contract signed by the client then it is pretty clear there is a fee to pay which is how all the claims i know of have succeeded (the agent getting judgement to have the fee paid).

looking at your case from what you have told the forum it sounds like the agent has clearly tried to sell the property and even secured you an offer. i think if you had not had any viewings or offers then your case to say that they haven't done much to sell your property would be stronger.

you put across mitigating circumstances that the agent has not done much to sell the property and the service has been poor. most complaints that i deal with tend to be that the people don't believe they should pay a fee (generally you sign up to an estate agent to sell a property and when it doesn't sell and you take it off the market, you feel aggrieved to pay for something that technically you haven't achieved - however the fee is not a success fee it is generally a fee to cover some of the expenditure the agent has incurred in marketing a property). [it should say in your contract what this fee relates to that you are being charge]

most case law i am familiar with the judge whilst they may be sympathetic to these mitigating circumstances of poor service [if proved], in law if there is a contract that has been agreed to unless that contract outlines that the agent will do certain things / obligations that have not been met then mitigating circumstances are not considered. for example if in the agents contract it said it would advertise the property on rightmove, erect a for sale board etc but did not do either of these things, then your mitigating circumstances would have weight. however i expect that as the agent has secured viewings and an offer, it would be difficult to prove that the agent has not tried to sell your property. (if it hadn't tried there would not have been viewings or offers).

2. not afford to pay
this is a different matter to the above point. if you feel you can not afford to pay but acknowledge you owe the money [either now or after pursuing the complaint] then it would be sensible to enter into a repayment plan (say an amount per month). most 'reasonable' people would accept a repayment plan - if they didn't and it ended up in court and the judge agreed with the agent you can still say that you can not afford to pay and any reasonable judge would accept a repayment plan [time to pay].

my view is that if there is a signed contract and the fact the agent has secured viewings and offer and if the agent wishes to pursue for the money, i believe they have a strong case to secure a fee. however, if there is not a signed contract and you can prove that the agent did not try to sell then i would argue your case, but that does not seem to be the case here .

there is also that you have paid them money already. The EPC is required to market a property by law (most estate agents subcontract this anyway, so i would expect that the money you paid for the EPC represents a fee for that that the agent has paid to a contractor). The marketing charge is not as clear I am not sure what you paid this for - was this at the start of the agreement and what exactly was it for? does it say in your contract what this fee is for and what happens to it in the event of the property selling or withdrawing - if it says in your contract that this fee is for admin/marketing and that it would be deducted from any final sale or withdrawal fee then you have the right to ask for this to be deducted from the withdrawal fee you are being charged.

Dave_Ham

clairej05 wrote: »

having worked for some of the larger estate agency chains 'withdrawal' fees are quite common. From reading your post it seems there are two issues here:

1. that you can not afford to pay the amount and

2. that even if you could, you do not feel you should pay it.

firstly it is common practice for estate agents to charge such withdrawal fees. gone are the days when selling properties was easy and most agents would operate no sale no fee. they charge the fees as most estate agents do not sell every single house they put on the market so it covers things like for sale boards, advertising etc.

some estate agents charge it but when people complain they don't pursue it because in the grand scheme of things its not a lot of money to them (they earn much more for selling) so the cost of pursuing it outweighs actually collecting it.

however i know of several 'big names' that don't back down, and know of several cases that have ended up in court. looking at case law and having worked in complaints departments myself i know that generally if there is a contract signed by the client then it is pretty clear there is a fee to pay which is how all the claims i know of have succeeded (the agent getting judgement to have the fee paid).

looking at your case from what you have told the forum it sounds like the agent has clearly tried to sell the property and even secured you an offer. i think if you had not had any viewings or offers then your case to say that they haven't done much to sell your property would be stronger.

you put across mitigating circumstances that the agent has not done much to sell the property and the service has been poor. most complaints that i deal with tend to be that the people don't believe they should pay a fee (generally you sign up to an estate agent to sell a property and when it doesn't sell and you take it off the market, you feel aggrieved to pay for something that technically you haven't achieved - however the fee is not a success fee it is generally a fee to cover some of the expenditure the agent has incurred in marketing a property). [it should say in your contract what this fee relates to that you are being charge]

most case law i am familiar with the judge whilst they may be sympathetic to these mitigating circumstances of poor service [if proved], in law if there is a contract that has been agreed to unless that contract outlines that the agent will do certain things / obligations that have not been met then mitigating circumstances are not considered. for example if in the agents contract it said it would advertise the property on rightmove, erect a for sale board etc but did not do either of these things, then your mitigating circumstances would have weight. however i expect that as the agent has secured viewings and an offer, it would be difficult to prove that the agent has not tried to sell your property. (if it hadn't tried there would not have been viewings or offers).

2. not afford to pay
this is a different matter to the above point. if you feel you can not afford to pay but acknowledge you owe the money [either now or after pursuing the complaint] then it would be sensible to enter into a repayment plan (say an amount per month). most 'reasonable' people would accept a repayment plan - if they didn't and it ended up in court and the judge agreed with the agent you can still say that you can not afford to pay and any reasonable judge would accept a repayment plan [time to pay].

my view is that if there is a signed contract and the fact the agent has secured viewings and offer and if the agent wishes to pursue for the money, i believe they have a strong case to secure a fee. however, if there is not a signed contract and you can prove that the agent did not try to sell then i would argue your case, but that does not seem to be the case here .

there is also that you have paid them money already. The EPC is required to market a property by law (most estate agents subcontract this anyway, so i would expect that the money you paid for the EPC represents a fee for that that the agent has paid to a contractor). The marketing charge is not as clear I am not sure what you paid this for - was this at the start of the agreement and what exactly was it for? does it say in your contract what this fee is for and what happens to it in the event of the property selling or withdrawing - if it says in your contract that this fee is for admin/marketing and that it would be deducted from any final sale or withdrawal fee then you have the right to ask for this to be deducted from the withdrawal fee you are being charged.

This is a long first post, probably worth £270 though so not bad eh!

Seriously, if it is contracted then you should pay. If you do not pay, then no-one here can tell you everything will be ok as we do not know.

I would not think they would send the boys round for £270 or take formal action as not really worth their time, but no-one knows.

Still, your post may put off one other person from instructing them and therefore it will probably even itself out.

Good luck

spadge_2356

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

I understand the legality of the fee, that isn't in question. My question is can I avoid paying it?

My arguement is that I have already paid money towards the marketing and admin fee's, and that the amount is disproportionate. The fact that they were rude and unprofessional is just my opinion in legal terms, but I have told them I'll be writing to the press about the issue.

The £70 was what they asked for to hold an open day at my property during their summer sale which included a newspaper advertisement, but nobody turned up. The £90 was for the EPC. In my mind both those things are classed as admin and marketing (are they not? let me know if you disagree).

I've already posted a letter to the MD challenging the fee, arguing them to justify it and that I am not happy to pay, so we'll see what happens I'll keep the thread updated.

On a non relevant point.....
I now work for a sign company who make fluted polypropelene signs for EA's. They're so cheap they have to buy in bulk to make up the minimum order. So if they come back and say the sign makes up part of the fee I'll be ROFLMAO :rotfl:

Jimmykurt

How did it finish?

In exact same position with this agent. They now want money up front (not explained) and to cancel (because dont want house being sold by liars!). Nothing explained.

Taking it up with property ombudsman. Avoid these people!

spadge_2356

Jimmykurt wrote: »

How did it finish?

In exact same position with this agent. They now want money up front (not explained) and to cancel (because dont want house being sold by liars!). Nothing explained.

Taking it up with property ombudsman. Avoid these people!

Well you're wasting your time posting in these forums, nobody has anything useful to say on the matter here.

Consequently the wet behind the ears MD I wrote to me threatened to take me to court and make an example out of me! If I had the balls I would of told him to shove it, but instead I caved and now I'm sending a cheque once a month for £10 until the fee is cleared.

If you really want to get your own back tell them your in financial destitution and all you can offer is £1 per month, send this by cheque 2nd class post, and make them chase you for it. They can't take you to court for refusing to pay, they have to accept your arrangement as if it goes to court they will just probably order you to pay it back on your own terms anyway. I know many more people who have had complaints against this particular company.

The moral of the story is don't trust; estate agents, solicitors, or banks, they are all vulchers, all make their own rules.

googler

'nobody has anything useful to say...'

Basically, you don't get the answer you want to hear, so you badmouth everyone else, is that it?