Help with Huge Elec Bill

tahrey

Apologies that I only skim-read thru this, and it is in no means an attempt to besmirch anyone's character or derail the investigation... but... if her behaviour is anything like my nan's, ie...

92 years old and still mostly compos mentis and independent, but stubborn to a fault about:
a/not bothering to learn how things work or how to use them,
b/wanting E7 (in fact, E10!) "because it's cheaper", regardless of how I try to convince her to switch back to a regular tariff
c/using the old underfloor heating and a fan heater at all hours, instead of the expensively-fitted storage heaters because they allegedly "don't work" (I've never seen them in action, I suspect she never turned them on... ergo they never had a chance to heat up even once and so stayed stone cold... ergo they don't work, QED)
d/insisting on doing her washing up whenever she damn well feels like it, heating an entire 100L tank to do a couple 8L bowls of dishes - usually well outside of both the mid afternoon and late evening/night-time E10 cheap periods.

...it might actually be a case of problem exists between cardigan and switch, and she's genuinely using a lot more power during the expensive daytime period than the cheap night time one, despite the idea being that these two are the other way round. In nan's case, it does lead to quite ludicrous power bills (not quite two grand, but still enough to give me a shock), which both herself and others in the family who have more control over those particular purse strings are more than happy to pay. Eon must be laughing all the way to the bank.

1500kWh for 7 hours of 365 1/4 days = 587W continuous. Still unusually high for most households. Could be a low-powered heater on a thermostat, or something similar?

19000kWh for 17 hours of 365 1/4 days = almost exactly 3.0kW continuous. It's basically unbelievably high in almost any normal situation...
...but if she's running a water heater and electric fire, plus the "normal" heating near continuously any time she's in the house and awake (and maybe a little besides), it's not impossible, unfortunately. Just very difficult.

(That's 52 units day rate, 4 units night rate (rounded off), or 56 total... more than 5 times what I use during heavier-use periods. But I can still believe it)


I would fervently hope she's sticking to the program, and it's a metering error. But do keep your peripheral vision and a segment at the back of your brain trained on her approach to energy usage next time you're round.

(Reversing the two periods however does give us a problem: 19000kWh in the 7-hour night period would be 7.3kW continuous, and 1500 in the daytime would be 242W. Not impossible, but maybe even harder to achieve, unless all the high use things happened overnight, and none of them in the day - high drain storage heaters run all night with no daytime boost, hot water tank charged right up with very good lagging, washing machine and/or dishwasher on timed programmes etc... So the figures may more further amiss than just having the wrong meter plugged into each side of the timer switch)

Terrylw1

lazyjack wrote: »

Thanks all for the help & advice. Have just PMd a link to the EDF bill to you so you can see all the details. Hope you don't mind.

No worries.

Had a look, you've got 2 readings that are very similar. I would say the day right is one of your night readings from somewhere as they are very close.

I suspect this is an amended bill, so there has been at least one before. The credit bought forward suggests this since you wouldn't have one.

Whilst you may not have had a previous original bill, there will be one on their system since you can't have a credit brought forward on the first bill, you would only have payments made up to the bill being generated.

This leads me to another issue. There is a gap in monthly payments. If this is an amended bill, it should show either the payments or a credit balance brought forward of the accumulated ones.

I think you need that previous bill. This one is a complete bill from the switch to your meter reading visit, but at the top of the credits there is a date of a bill. That bill may hide some of the payments if it has been replaced by this one. It may also show something interesting about the readings. I say this because the credit brought forward is clearly incorrect, so I think that your switch may be OK, but they have transposed your readings in that bill but not from the start but actually at the billed up to part, withdrawn it with this replaced bill. Another option is an amendment where someone put the night reads in from 2 seperate dates in for the same date on the bill.

Its likely given that huge credit, its a combination of the 2.

lazyjack

Thought I would post an update on this, went to Citizens Advice today with M-I-L and the guy we spoke to from EDF was very, very good. His immediate response was that the bill was ridiculous.

Anyway, it turns out that not only were the readings incorrect on the transfer day but they had also been transposed. After doing a few calculations, I reckon the usage in the last 10.5 months has been about 10000kWh (2200 day, 7800 night) which works out to about £760. The direct debit is £70 a month so it's not far off the mark.

M-I-L has also managed to get the £2k refunded back into her account so all is well. Just need to agree on the closing readings with the previous supplier now (BG) to make sure there's no outstanding balance.

All in all a complete shambles but with the help I got from here it looks like we've managed to get a pretty quick resolution.

Many thanks yet again for all the help and advice.

Terrylw1

Quick question.

Did they guy say they were transposed switch readings or just that only they had transposed to the bill.

If he said the former, then you would have a massive bill from your old supplier. This to me would mean he is incorrect because you would be getting chased for it.

Did he say why the readings were also wrong? Amending them is likely going to take 6 weeks as it has to pass through 2 suppliers and it up 2 Data Collectors who validate them.

lazyjack

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Quick question.

Did they guy say they were transposed switch readings or just that only they had transposed to the bill.

If he said the former, then you would have a massive bill from your old supplier. This to me would mean he is incorrect because you would be getting chased for it.

Did he say why the readings were also wrong? Amending them is likely going to take 6 weeks as it has to pass through 2 suppliers and it up 2 Data Collectors who validate them.

Not 100% sure TBH, I managed to get 2 daytime readings yesterday which confirmed day/night, so I have emailed this info to the EDF guy to get things straightened out from their side.

Other things I managed to find out was the last 'actual' BG reading was in Jan 2010 (EDF phoned them to check this) and also that EDF had some 'actual' readings from Aug 2011 which seemed to have been ignored - one of the readings was actually LOWER than the opening reading on their bill.

Terrylw1

OK, then I think you could make another check to prove that.

Check which way round the readings are on your final Bgas bill. If correct either a) they were transposed but Bgas flipped them knowing them to be wrong which they shouldn't have done or b) only the new supplier has set them up wrong. If the latter, they just need to correct the bill.

I don't understand how he knows they are transposed and also incorrect for another reason. The other reason could mean there are reading from you given at the switch but have been ignored in favour of a Deemed reading from their agent or it could mean that they have had several adjusted readings from their agents.

If it were me, I would check because if he knew what was wrong, he would have explained it you and it doesn't sound like you know. He's given you into on unused readings but these only prove the transposition later, not at the switch point.

lazyjack

Terrylw1 wrote: »

OK, then I think you could make another check to prove that.

Check which way round the readings are on your final Bgas bill. If correct either a) they were transposed but Bgas flipped them knowing them to be wrong which they shouldn't have done or b) only the new supplier has set them up wrong. If the latter, they just need to correct the bill.

I don't understand how he knows they are transposed and also incorrect for another reason. The other reason could mean there are reading from you given at the switch but have been ignored in favour of a Deemed reading from their agent or it could mean that they have had several adjusted readings from their agents.

If it were me, I would check because if he knew what was wrong, he would have explained it you and it doesn't sound like you know. He's given you into on unused readings but these only prove the transposition later, not at the switch point.

Just to clarify, the EDF guy did not state they were transposed, he merely suggested that they may well be, which I managed to confirm with a couple of daytime readings.

Now, where do we stand with BG ? Should I be chasing them up or wait for them to re-issue their final bill and take it from there ? EDF have now agreed 2 final readings with them. BG told EDF their last 'actual' reading was from Jan 2010 so in July 2011 it shouldn't have been too far off.

Terrylw1

If your switch is older than 14 months ago, the suppliers can't use the industry disputed readings process to change it. This will push the new supplier to try to resolve their own issue and forget about the old supplier matching. So, you could end up paying for your energy twice.

The industry doesn't allow you to pay twice as the switch is based on the same readings but the data becomes crystallised at 14 months as it should never take this long.

The question is what does the switch bill look like? If it runs inline with your meter, the transposition is out and the problem with your massive jump only occurred on the new supplier side.

If your switch readings are reasonable, what has that guy seen? Regardless, at 14 months they won't be able to change it unless the suppliers make internal amendments which would require you resolving it most likely independently and one supplier will lose out.

If the switch read doesn't cause you to pay more due to the old suppliers rates, does it matter?

Without knowing the switch reads, its not possible to say.

In terms of agreeing final readings, that's all the industry disputed readings process. Bill amendments should come from this process with you just talking to the new supplier. I would still advise you keep an eye on the old supplier though incase they owe you a credit.

Without understanding the switch reads and what the suppliers show on their bills as the switch read, I can't see anything to understand it. This is where your crazy bill has come from so its worth understanding.

lazyjack

Bit of an update on this.......

So, the sheer incompetence continues. I managed to get some updated readings agreed with EDF, who in turn passed these on to British Gas.

British Gas have now sent a revised final bill this week and guess what the muppets have done ? Well, they have got the night & day readings the wrong way around so they have sent a bill for over £1400 - based on the correct readings it should be nearer to £300.

However, I find even this unacceptable as every reading, right through from Jan 10 to July 11 was estimated. If they had kept on top of the readings I wouldn't be sorting this complete mess out. The question is what do I say to BG when I call them tomorrow ?

Terrylw1

The thing yo do first is determine whether they have caused it.

It could have been sent to them this way. It could also be one of the agents that caused it.

So first ask about what they received so you can fund out who is at fault.