Is it illegal to use someone elses debit card?

Naf

On a more relevant note:
If someone has your card and PIN, and the bank believes that you gave these to the person, the bank's fraud department won't go near it. They'll wash their hands of you very quickly. Because you handed it over, it's your fault.
Strictly speaking, it would still be fraud if you only gave permission for one thing, and they go do lots of others; but you'd be hard pushed to get any help.

cottager

Judy, a thought occurred to me about what sibling is doing. I wasn't quite sure which of your two threads I should put it on -- opted for this one!

We're talking about 12 yrs ago now, but my mum, a little way into her final illness, was worried about signing cheques (much more common then than now) and that sort of thing, because her signature had become very shaky and almost unrecognisable. She was also reaching the point when she'd be rather too weak to come with me to town to visit the bank, do the weekly shop and so on, so I was starting to do more and more for her.

On one of the last occasions we were able to go to town together we went into her bank (which was the same as mine) and the bank set up a mandate for me to operate her account, obviously with her consent -- she and I both had to sign the forms. I could then sign her cheques, speak to the bank about her account and that kind of thing. TBH I can't now remember if this included the use of her debit card by 'officially' giving me permission to use it. I somehow doubt it and I certainly wasn't issued one in my name for her a/c: the only card I ever used was hers, which she'd give me to draw cash out of the ATM when needed.

I didn't have any sort of formal PoA through the Court of Protection or anything like that -- this was purely a matter between my mum and the bank, which involved them doing as she wished. When she died a couple of months later, the mandate in my favour obviously came to an end immediately, when I notified them of her death, and from that point I had no further access to or dealings with her a/c -- it was all handed over to the solicitor handling probate.

Online banking didn't exist then so wasn't a factor (not sure about telephone banking, but she wouldn't have used either anyway); but for instance in a different set of circumstances nowadays, I'm fully mandated with the bank to operate my OH's business a/c in any way (branch, telephone, online) and this was also set up by filling in bank forms where he gave his consent and which I also had to sign for a specimen signature and so on.

Could it be that this is what has happened with sibling being able to access your mum's a/c, in the same way I had a bank mandate to operate my mum's? Could sibling have taken your mum to the bank to get all this set up? -- I can't see that the bank would have had a reason to question it, and would simply have complied with your mum's stated wishes, provided they were covered by your mum having given her consent. Has the bank in question ever been told a PoA exists in your favour?

But as you do have a PoA in force, I'm wondering is if this enables you to go to the bank to overturn these other arrangements which sibling has set up, and give instructions that nothing else should be set up without your authorisation?

This will have consequences though, in terms of the inter-family relationships, as sibling will become aware of it in due course, even if you don't tell them. It would be much better if an amicable understanding can also be reached between you and sibling, with both of you working together towards your mum's best interests. If your mum is now having more and more bouts of confusion it seems to me this is by far the best way forward -- but if this can't be achieved with sibling on board, let the Court of Protection decide. From what you have said, it seems you could prove your benign position and competent handling of your PoA responsibilities over many years rather more effectively than sibling could justify their more recent activities?

Judy_Judy

cottager wrote: »

Judy, a thought occurred to me about what sibling is doing. I wasn't quite sure which of your two threads I should put it on -- opted for this one!



QUOTE]

Thank you for such a comprehensive and well thought out response. The person has admitted they pretend to be her to gain access to the information so that's not in question. For years they have done nothing but turn up in the final moments persuading a confused lady to give her enough information to circumvent bank security, its awful. There is little left I have to make sure she can pay the bills, there is enough for me to pay for her shopping etc.

The person is now making noises that they are losing interest as they are unable to access anything but a minimal amount of funds. It's sickening stuff.

But thanks to all for the posts which have been informative, insightful and helpful. I am concerned that the integrity of the account has been breached as mum has been susceptible to being fleeced for years. One of my concerns is that she will be ripped off and they wont help because she has given out her account information so thanks to the poster who confirmed that.

Judy_Judy

Naf wrote: »

On a more relevant note:
If someone has your card and PIN, and the bank believes that you gave these to the person, the bank's fraud department won't go near it. They'll wash their hands of you very quickly. Because you handed it over, it's your fault.
Strictly speaking, it would still be fraud if you only gave permission for one thing, and they go do lots of others; but you'd be hard pushed to get any help.

I fear you are right, this really worries me.

lovinituk

Naf wrote: »

interesting.
Any guesses where something like this would go on? :-P

P4U by any chance!!

lovinituk

Judy_Judy wrote: »

Is it illegal to use someone elses debit card even if you have their permission and they give you the pin?

My instinct tells me that it should be but I don't know.

A retailer can confiscate the card if it's not in your name and some of them do it.

Judy_Judy

lovinituk wrote: »

A retailer can confiscate the card if it's not in your name and some of them do it.

They are using the card in a machine, I have to do the shopping for food and everything else other person won't do it. Think I need to go and get all passwords etc. reset and tell the person that I've done it.

Naf

lovinituk wrote: »

P4U by any chance!!

Where else :-p lol

lovinituk

Naf wrote: »

Where else :-p lol

LOL! I can't believe they are still in business!!