greedy management company

Fraise

lucky18 wrote: »

I am here hoping for some advice. I am not particularly happy with my management company. I bought my flat in August 2009 and at that time the service charge was £75 a month. Since then the management company is significantly increasing the service charge every year : £75 amonth - 1st year, went up to £83 a month for the second year and and now they demand £92 a month so it's 25% increase for the last 3 years!:eek: It's not just the amount of money they want from us as every year they also have a balance deficit and charge an additional nearly £100 for every financial year. There are 4 blocks in the whole building, communal gardens, no lift. Windows cleaning once a month. They have just reduced cleaning of the premises to twice a month instead of once a week. They have just recruited a new Estate coordinator but used to be the Senior manager and the Manager. Is that where our money goes? The flats are mainly being rent out to tenants so there are only few owners who reside here. I am just wondering how much do other people pay in service charge as I think this particular management company is greedy. We have a Resident Director but it seems that nobody is companing about it.

The resident director....is he/she a director of the management agency, or management company?

Who are the freeholders of the flats?

Residents/leaseholders can also own share of the freehold, and make themselves directors too. So if this director who lives there is running this management company, then it's no wonder he's not fussed. I noticed there was a sum for £5493.60 for 'management fees'. That could be their wages - for doing next to nothing!

All a management agency does is phone up plumbers/window cleaners etc and get them round. It's money for old rope.

You should investigate further, especially as there's so little to maintain!

kiwi07

Fraise wrote: »

The resident director....is he/she a director of the management agency, or management company?

Who are the freeholders of the flats?

Residents/leaseholders can also own share of the freehold, and make themselves directors too. So if this director who lives there is running this management company, then it's no wonder he's not fussed. I noticed there was a sum for £5493.60 for 'management fees'. That could be their wages - for doing next to nothing!

All a management agency does is phone up plumbers/window cleaners etc and get them round. It's money for old rope.

You should investigate further, especially as there's so little to maintain!

You know what, last year we had annual meeting. Management company 2 managers turned up so as 3 other flat owners - the 2 were directors - one of them was still a resident but another was renting his flat out. My first impression was as they all work together! and had everything agreed prior to the meeting.

moromir

oh add 'organising and hosting the AGM' to the list of things the MA will charge for - see my earlier post.

Ok are you fully reading all the documentation sent to you before the AGM?

It will set out the order of business (i.e. what will be discussed at the meeting) and invite leaseholders to submit any items they want to discuss by a set date (usually 7 days before the meeting to allow directors and agent to discuss or find the relevent information to answer you).

This is possibly why it would have looked like they 'had everything agreed' if you don't undestand the process.

The managing agent is literally that, the agent of the resident's association, which is chaired by the Directors, ultimately they can only advise the Directors who are actually the ones making the decisions.

propertyman

Fraise wrote: »

Residents/leaseholders can also own share of the freehold, and make themselves directors too.
All a management agency does is phone up plumbers/window cleaners etc and get them round. It's money for old rope.

Well no they can't as there is no such thing as share of freehold. A company owns the freehold, and owners are shareholders or members.

There is lot more to it than that and as part of a freeholder to be, it is important that you get to grips with the wad of statutory and technical compliance you will have to handle.

In one example where a client expressed those sentiments under a confidentiality agreement he agreed to come in and watch on a day of his choosing. At the end he apologised and said “ I don’t know how you all cope, we (residents ) must drive you mad”.

You would think it is just about fixing a light or a blocked drain but that from a tiny part of the daily life of a PM.:rotfl:

Fraise

propertyman wrote: »

Well no they can't as there is no such thing as share of freehold. A company owns the freehold, and owners are shareholders or members.

There is lot more to it than that and as part of a freeholder to be, it is important that you get to grips with the wad of statutory and technical compliance you will have to handle.

In one example where a client expressed those sentiments under a confidentiality agreement he agreed to come in and watch on a day of his choosing. At the end he apologised and said “ I don’t know how you all cope, we (residents ) must drive you mad”.

You would think it is just about fixing a light or a blocked drain but that from a tiny part of the daily life of a PM.:rotfl:

Yes there are such things as share of freehold. I myself owned a SOF. And there are plenty of flats that are still SOF.

Of course, it's much safer to turn a SOF into a limited company, but it's effectively the same : each shareholder of the freehold simply has a share of the company instead, which is actually the freehold owned by the company. But as you have a share in the company, you still have your share of freehold, albeit by way of the company.

All 'owners' of the company are shareholders, they are not members.

Of course, if you are talking about blocks of flats with maybe 200 flats in total, then yes, there would be a lot of work involved in the running of maintenance etc. But if it's just a small property consisting of 6 flats or less, then it's as easy as maintaining a house. It isn't rocket science organising roofers/plumbers and handymen to come and fix a leaking roof or blocked drain. And it isn't difficult getting 3 separate quotes for outside decoration. So, my point about a management agency being money down the drain for a small unit of flats is correct.

propertyman

Fraise wrote: »

Yes there are such things as share of freehold. I myself owned a SOF. And there are plenty of flats that are still SOF.
.

Fraise you are being a numpty.

there are only three ofrms of tenure, landl ownership in E & W

1 Freehold
2 Leasehold
As defined under the law of Property Act 1925
3 Commonhold
as defined under the Commonhold Leasehold Reform Act 2002

And thats it.:)

A group of people owning a freehold are the freeholder as single legal entity.

The reference SoF is estate agent shorthand, show me a regiotered title that is registered at HMLR as SoF and I will give you the title to our (mortgage free)house.

propertyman

Fraise wrote: »

But if it's just a small property consisting of 6 flats or less, then it's as easy as maintaining a house. It isn't rocket science organising roofers/plumbers and handymen to come and fix a leaking roof or blocked drain. And it isn't difficult getting 3 separate quotes for outside decoration. So, my point about a management agency being money down the drain for a small unit of flats is correct.

Hmmm.........

So you can read the lease and decide how and when the works can be financed?

You can deal with the statutory consultation required, or is it?

Can you decide in the case where the timber is owned by the flat owner but decorated by the "freeholder" who pays for and organises timber repairs?

If the painter drops the paint on the passer by is he or you liable to the public?

Can you ensure that a contractor has the appropriate insurance and has prepared the correct and applicable risk assessments and method statements, which you as the employer are responsible for, not the contractor?

You can deal with the statutory common parts risk assessment or fires risk assessments (and all those for any plant) and manage them thereafter?

Can the freeholder/company hold service charge monies in its bank account?

Do you know what a statutory information needs to be provided with service charge or ground rent bills, or admin charges?

Do you know who to deal with alterations or breaches of the lease?

What remedies do you have to collect arrears and what steps do you have to take to do so?

Can you assess the declared value for insurance and insure correctly and deal with excesses and fault based claim on leaks flat to flat?

The buyer thinks that they need a deed of covenant- how do you know?

You have your AGM and I call for a Poll- what do you do?

have you heard of a code of practice including the applicable one for managing?


So Fraise it’s all about ringing the plumber or roofer… :rotfl:

Fraise

propertyman wrote: »

Fraise you are being a numpty.

there are only three ofrms of tenure, landl ownership in E & W

1 Freehold
2 Leasehold
As defined under the law of Property Act 1925
3 Commonhold
as defined under the Commonhold Leasehold Reform Act 2002

And thats it.:)

A group of people owning a freehold are the freeholder as single legal entity.

The reference SoF is estate agent shorthand, show me a regiotered title that is registered at HMLR as SoF and I will give you the title to our (mortgage free)house.

I owned a SoF flat. You're just being pedantic. Why?

Here's a SOF flat for you

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38662873.html?premiumA=true

Fraise

propertyman wrote: »

Hmmm.........

So you can read the lease and decide how and when the works can be financed?

You can deal with the statutory consultation required, or is it?

Can you decide in the case where the timber is owned by the flat owner but decorated by the "freeholder" who pays for and organises timber repairs?

If the painter drops the paint on the passer by is he or you liable to the public?

Can you ensure that a contractor has the appropriate insurance and has prepared the correct and applicable risk assessments and method statements, which you as the employer are responsible for, not the contractor?

You can deal with the statutory common parts risk assessment or fires risk assessments (and all those for any plant) and manage them thereafter?

Can the freeholder/company hold service charge monies in its bank account?

Do you know what a statutory information needs to be provided with service charge or ground rent bills, or admin charges?

Do you know who to deal with alterations or breaches of the lease?

What remedies do you have to collect arrears and what steps do you have to take to do so?

Can you assess the declared value for insurance and insure correctly and deal with excesses and fault based claim on leaks flat to flat?

The buyer thinks that they need a deed of covenant- how do you know?

You have your AGM and I call for a Poll- what do you do?

have you heard of a code of practice including the applicable one for managing?


So Fraise it’s all about ringing the plumber or roofer… :rotfl:

It's very easy to read a lease for me, Propertyman. I don't have difficulties reading or writing.


When a lease states that decoration must be carried out to the exterior no longer than every 7 years, that makes sense to me.:)

And when it says gutters/drains etc must be inspected twice annually, that also makes sense to me.

And it's extremely simple to get 3 separate quotes and commission builders to carry out the work.

As for dealing with a statutory consultation, that's easy. It may be hard for some people, but it's very straightforward.

Your question:


Can you decide in the case where the timber is owned by the flat owner but decorated by the "freeholder" who pays for and organises timber repairs?



If the timber is owned by the flat owner, it belongs to them. The flat owner could well be the freeholder too If you're meaning the timber on the exterior, then it will all be in the lease regarding decorating. People do read them you know.

As for a painted dropping paint......the person who commissioned him would claim off him, who in turn would claim off his own insurance.

You know, I'm not here to answer your questions....ask a solicitor yourself. I am talking about running a SMALL property of just 6 flats, NOT a huge estate of 600 flats. BIG difference.

Yo sound very confused, you seem to be mistaking my points of running a small house with running an estate. I'm also referring to a house divided into flats where all the shareholders are freeholders to - and NO management agency can overrule the FREEHOLDER who employs them!!:rotfl::rotfl:

propertyman

Fraise wrote: »

I owned a SoF flat. You're just being pedantic. Why?

Here's a SOF flat for you

No its not...:rotfl:

I am not being pedantic I am being correct about this as the Sof notion is a dangerous one.

The biggest issue is that they believe that "it’s not leasehold"

-A typical example is the buyer who thinks the lease is just a technicality and comes unstuck when they need it extending the company or other owners ask for a market premium, which they can.

-Moreover it often believed that the restrictions and rights that come with leases can then be ignored, which they can't.

-They then discover that the mortgage lender will not lend on a lease of say 76 years at 90% and that the price they are paying is based on flat with a lease of at least 95 years and up

-ground rent and service charge and their importance is overlooked as they think “its not leasehold its SoF

- worst of all they find this out after they have bought it

But if buyers dont clearly understand what they are buying they fail to understand the very considerable issues that come with flat ownership BEFORE let alone after, they buy


The link is no proof it’s an entirely made up marketing concept. As I have explained several times its a simple concept as explained in the only forms of property ownership that exist (as above)

You are buying two separate interests.

1 You own the flat under a lease

2 The freehold is (jointly) owned either by a group of people as a single legal entity or you have a share in or are a member of a company that owns the freehold

The EA description is simple

Tenure

Flat: 95 years remaining
Freehold: the freehold is owned by a company controlled by the flat owners, membership of which will be transferred to you
GR X
SC Y