deleted thread

tyllwyd

The first thing to do is to stop, take a deep breath, and have a think about whether there is anything you are doing which is contributing to the problem. If they are driving you crazy, do you respond by shouting? Do you let them drag you into their arguments, and take sides against the other one?

If you can calm yourself down, refuse to let yourself shout, refuse to listen to tales of he did this or that, maybe the atmosphere can start to improve. Can you get them to sit with you and watch something on the tv, and all have a laugh together? When they have done something good - even if it is just sit in a room peacefully together for an afternoon - do you mention it and praise them for positive behaviour. I appreciate you are starting from a difficult place, but the more you can try to show them a positive side of behaving with respect, the more chance there is of them responding.

WestonDave

Carve the problem into solveable chunks - if you sort the two older ones out the younger one will almost certainly follow (and you can justifiably say to the older two if she continues to play up that you expect better of them at their age and will expect the younger one to improve as she gets older).

The older two are old enough to have a sensible rational conversation about expected standards of behaviour and consequences if they don't live up to that. For example pocket money and/or phone credit will be issued at the end of the week if behaviour has been good enough (and any sulking/tantrums if its deemed not good enough puts them on rocky ground for the following payout!). Sounds like you need a week/fortnight of zero tolerance to get things back on track at the end of which, if things are calming down you can sit with them again and say that you will lighten up a bit (as everyone makes mistakes, has bad moods etc) but if it goes back to the current nightmare, then so does the zero tolerance.

If you can couple this period with putting some additional activity into the weekend "risk" time so they have less time (and if I was doing it less energy!) to fight. Even if that is a case of sticking a picnic in a rucksack, putting wellies/boots and coats on and going for a 5mile walk in the rain in the country. Maybe the second week ask for suggestions of what to do.

no1catman

Send for Supernanny.

If you can watch her programmes. She has done the UK and the US with the same basic principles:

- set rules and act upon them when broken,

- her favourite consequence is the 'naughty step' a minute per year, after a warning there get taken to it, with no debate or speaking - if a child moves they get taken back and the clock is reset. And at the end - the child says sorry - and they do!

- Supernanny - Jo Frost believes in 'praise' for things done, too much negativity is disheartening.

- arrange family activities, where all are involved and can let 'off steam'.

It can be fascinating to watch the programmes, the cases feature all walks of life, and varying circumstances. You see the before, her ideas. how they coped without her, and then a resher, and finally - 'happy families' (sometimes even a marriage saved).

Perhaps there's a book in the library!?

FBaby

- try as hard not to shout, if you do, leave it for the ultimate last resort, when you have told them calmly to do something 2 or 3 times. Do it in a control way, ie, raising your voice to get them to react, not to rent.
- build a structure routine, agree it with them, as much as they will, install the notion that TV, ipod, phone and the rest are rewards after they have done what is expected of them.
- teach them the notion of negotiation and compromise between themselves.
- accept that there wont be any immediate change, as a matter of fact, it is likely to get worse rather than better, but stick to it.
- accept that it will be tough, you might cry, you might collapse with exhaustion, but it will pay off in the long run.
- spend time with them. I think it is very easy when they get older and more independent, and are pain the bums to only interact with them to deal with chores and the rest. Do get them involved in cooking meals with you, seat down and have a proper talk about their day, discuss plans for the week-end, play games together. They might be reluctant at first, you might have to push them a bit, but they will love the attention. If you can try to spend some individual time with them, that would be great, but I know it isn't easy when you are single parent.
- be honest with them. If they make you feel bad, do tell them. Not when you are about to explode, but when everyone is calm. Let them know how their behaviour affect you, and therefore the whole family.
- Whatever you do, remind yourself that they are lovely children and you are lucky they are yours. They just need a bit more direction.

Nicki

Ivrytwr3 wrote: »

No mention of your recommendation of SS, you have chosen just to focus on the Parental Classes? OK then..............

At no point did i say "until the child is out of control". As correctly identified parental classes teach, so why do you need to go to a class immediately? The OP came here asking for help and advice, so why can't people here give some advice and help on what experience they have on the subject, instead of saying "go take a class"?

I've done a parenting course, not because my kids were running riot but because my friend had just qualified as a facilitator and it was her first one, so I signed up as moral support. Found it hugely helpful though.

The one I did could no way no how have been imparted by titbits of advice on an Internet forum. It was partly about examining the dynamic between parent and children and recognising that the reason why certain behaviours wind you up is more to do with differing personality styles rather than necessarily bad behaviour in itself, and how changing your behaviour and reactions as a parent could dramatically change your children's behaviours. Also about developing strategies which work for your children - some kids respond better to praise, others to consequences for example. Not all kids in the same family tick in the same way either so you need to find strategies which work for them all and are fair to all.

Stigmatising parenting classes does no one any good. Not those who have to attend them or risk losing their children, and not those who would like to attend them to improve their parenting but worry what others would think if they do.

OP - mine were organised through children's primary school, but have also seen them advertised at Children's Centres if any of your kids are under 5. Or I think the Local Authority is likely to have a list of ones available in your area if you get stuck tracking one down. Which is not the same as getting SS involved with the family.

suki1001

There's some really helpful advice above and I think it's so difficult.

However, I would just be mindful of the fact you are in charge.
I think when we forget this when we end up in a struggle, but you are in charge.
You don't have to shout or get cross, but you do need to have the confidence to realise this a bit more.

You might want to look at ways to manage what's going on, but I think the realisation that you're in charge, end of and just knowing that, might give you a bit more feeling of power (I don't mean in a dictatorial sense).

Spendless

^^^^^^^
what Nicki said.

I've done 3 parenting courses and not because I have kids in danger of getting an Asbo! My 1st was because my DS didn't sleep which had a knock on effect on the rest of us who didn't consider sleeping optional. I missed some of the course because my husband was seriously ill in the middle (diagnosed with cancer) so I did a 2nd one months later that I disliked (webster-stratton)poss because my son was at the top end of the age range it was aimed at. In recent weeks I enrolled on a 3rd, this time it was because my son was assaulted by several children whilst others watched and 1 filmed. Via his school we were able to get help for him to do with self-esteem but we weren't sure how to help at home and the 1st course I enrolled on that I thought would help, one of the assaulters mothers was on it, which made it very difficult to share with the group what and why I needed help. I confided in one of the centre's staff, who got me on the parenting course as well.

The one I am on is called the Solihull Approach and is aimed at looking at things from the child's perspective. For example the other week we got told to leave our seats and go and play either alone or with someone, there was colouring pencils and paper, a dolls house, board games, jenga. After a little while we were shouted to return to our seat. The idea was to see how we reacted when we were shouted away from playing (we'd all become absorbed in what we were doing) to do something else. The equivalent of shouting 'bed' to a kid without giving a pre-warning. Whilst I felt a bit down, regretful about having to stop my gain, feelings in the group ranged right thru to anger.

The very 1st week what you are told to do (and this I also did on one of my other courses) is to just step back and observe. See what happens, what are the trigger points for something 'kicking off'. Once you know what they are, there's a possibility you can pre-empt the situation in future.

I got on my course via my local children's centre. Though it's another in the borough I attend classes at. I don't know if they are the same but my centre has become (been told?) that it has to be inclusive of children upto 10 years. Prior to this it was 0-5 inclusive so upto a child's 6th birthday but if anything counted as adult learning then anyone could go. Some people on my course have older teenagers, 1 has adult children but young grandchildren, so if you are interested in persuing this, ask what your local ones policy is.

Ellejmorgan

One of the resons the kids aren't responding is you are using too many different sanctions..
The most effective sanction is for each child pick the one thing that will affect them ie for my 11 year old she will only get a sanction of bed early as she hates this..
My 6 year old will only sit on the naughty step which is effective for her...

If choosing more than one sanction you undermine your own authority, the kids think you don't know what you are doing...

Single parenting is tough, but you should be able to manage..
I have 3 one of which is a baby, i'm also disabled...

It is hard, nothing worthwhile is easy, try to get inside their heads, they are little people with thoughts and feelings, they are playing up for a reason..
Talk to them in a kind gentle way, ask them what they need and feel they aren't getting....

Stick to routine as kids always find it tough when routines change..

amyloofoo

I can understand how stressful this must be for you and understand how you're feeling at the end of your tether.

It's important to remember that asking for help doesn't mean you've failed as a parent, we all need support with some things in our lives and I can't think of anything more challenging or important than parenting so I'm amazed more people don't take up the help that is out there.

I found this in your local area:

http://www.shropshire.gov.uk/childrenscentres.nsf/open/1DEB42EFAF74BCB98025747100415F47

It seems as though your local authority offer parenting outreach and support via Sure Start so maybe this is a good place to begin?

Also, I know that it's always tempting for people on forums to instantly blame the parenting, or think kids are just being disrespectful - but have any of the children been assessed for behavioural or emotional support? It might be that there are underlying issues behind their behaviour. I'm not suggesting you rush out and put your children on Ritalin, but it might be worth seeing if some small changes could help:

- As Elle has said above, children need routine. I know it's tempting to give in, but if you can try to stick to bed times, meal times, bath time routines etc then this may help.

- Try to reduce the refined sugars, processed foods, fizzy drinks, etc in their diets. Whilst kids may love them, all these things have been shown to have links to behavioural problems and lack of concentration.

- Keep the kids busy during the day time and try to 'wear them out' with productive, energetic or fun activities. Kids who've been running around all day playing outside are less likely to kick up a fuss at bedtime.

- Remember to praise good behaviour and don't always be negative. I know it's sometimes tempting to just see the naughtiness, but this just reinforces the idea that the only way they get attention is through poor behaviour.

- Be consistent with treats and punishments. If you say you're going to do something then follow through, so think carefully about what you promise!

Sorry if the above sounds patronising, but there's really no way to give 'parenting advice' without sounding like a bit of a n0b :rotfl:

System

A few thoughts after bringing up my own family:

Its not easy and you should always start as you mean to go on but when you say 'No' you should mean it.

When you threaten a punishment you should carry it through, theres no room for empty threats.

The punishment should always fit the crime. No good grounding them for a week if they are too slow getting dressed on a morning as when they do something pretty naughty what are you going to punish them with?

Kids are brilliant at testing your limits and one sign of weakness or backing down and they have you cracked.

Be careful not to instill embitterness into a child as once its there it never leaves.

Mix all the above with a good measure of love. Its no good being the dragon if they cant see your softer side too (which is something i often wonder if i got right).