Received a bill, but I wasn't living there at the time

MissSarah

macman wrote: »

Why are you paying a solicitor to do this basic stuff for you-assuming about £300 a hour, it'll probably cost you more than paying the debt!

The Solicitor is family.

macman

MissSarah wrote: »

The Solicitor is family.

Ah, so probably only charging you £150 an hour then...;)

MissSarah

macman wrote: »

Ah, so probably only charging you £150 an hour then...;)

Mate's rates .

jalexa

MissSarah wrote: »

in the end it would be up to the Courts to decide whether or not they are satisfied with the evidence put before them...

Of course that is the case but the outcome is uncertain in terms of decision and cost. IMO the Tenancy Agreement has significant weight and taken alongside the contractual supply agreement, deemed or otherwise, indicates clear liability.

Sometimes I think solicitors, used to an each way bet on fees, miss the point. The sum at issue is "small" compared with the downside risk.

All that said I take a zero-tolerance approach to supplier's "debt-collection" activity. The lack of engagement and notice is IMO completely unacceptable. It may also be a breach of procedure. I would drive that process issue hard through the E.ON complaints procedure with a view to a negotiated outcome.

IMO you should pay-up for your period of tenancy and counter-claim (using your legal help) against others who you believe share cost liability. The lesson going forward is don't rely on poor advice from others e.g. letting agents.

MissSarah

jalexa wrote: »

Of course that is the case but the outcome is uncertain in terms of decision and cost. IMO the Tenancy Agreement has significant weight and taken alongside the contractual supply agreemnet, deemed or otherwise, indicates clear liability.

Sometimes I think solicitors, used to an each way bet on costs, miss the point. The sum at issue is "small" compared with the downside potential.

All that said I take a zero-tolerance approach to supplier's "debt-collection" activity. The lack of engagement and notice is IMO completely unacceptable. It may also breach procedure. I would drive the process issue hard through the E.ON complaints precedure.

On

Thank you for your response. I queried the need for a Tenancy Agreement with LCS and they conceeded and stated that they would accept other pieces of evidence. Whilst I agree that a Tenancy Agreement does hold significant weight, it is not the sole piece of evidence that can disprove liability. I also wonder whether a Tenancy Agreement would be completely useful, because if I have one proving I was living elsewhere at the time does it outweigh the other Tenancy Agreement I have stating I was living at the address with the arrears? I have other evidence showing I couldn't possibly be living at the house.

I agree with regards to the way E.ON have handled it. The correspondence from the debt collectors was the first I have heard about any outstanding bill. All other correspondence meant to go to me has gone to the other tenant's new address. I'm looking into their procedure now, which seems to be quite difficult to find. Once I have found it and researched as to whether it was in breach or not I will most certainly make a complaint. They have also lost my custom, which may or may not be of a concern to them if they consider me to be in debt to them.

With regards to paying up for my period of tenancy, I do not want to have to pay for the other tenant's usage and then counter claim. Counter claiming would be difficult because the other tenant has not paid anything towards rent, council tax or utilities and seems to be uncontactable. I'd probably not see my money again and would have paid for energy that I have not personally used at all. It seems much easier just to prove to LCS I am not liable than to go through the process of counter claiming.

undaunted

jalexa wrote: »

Of course that is the case but the outcome is uncertain in terms of decision and cost. IMO the Tenancy Agreement has significant weight and taken alongside the contractual supply agreement, deemed or otherwise, indicates clear liability.

Sometimes I think solicitors, used to an each way bet on fees, miss the point. The sum at issue is "small" compared with the downside risk.

All that said I take a zero-tolerance approach to supplier's "debt-collection" activity. The lack of engagement and notice is IMO completely unacceptable. It may also be a breach of procedure. I would drive that process issue hard through the E.ON complaints procedure with a view to a negotiated outcome.

IMO you should pay-up for your period of tenancy and counter-claim (using your legal help) against others who you believe share cost liability. The lesson going forward is don't rely on poor advice from others e.g. letting agents.

In general I'd see your comments here as considered & intended to be helpful but nevertheless overall I think I'd still disagree with you on this one.

If complaining to EOn why pay them in the meantime? They are hardly likely to want to give the money back afterwards.

Whilst I agree you can't be certain of the outcome if you were a betting man (or woman) and able to prove that you were living and paying for energy elsewhere at a given time would you bet on a Judge deciding you had simultaneously used and were liable for energy at the above property?

I wouldn't, hence I'd fight this personally.

Whilst its admittedly unusual simply being named on a tenancy agreement and having lived there at some point does not prove that you were living there at the time of this bill!

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi MissSarah

When properties change hands, we rely on the information we're given being accurate.

This can be a bit of a problem sometimes where there are several changes in a short time or where other parties, like landlords and letting agents, are involved.

One piece of information we ask for is a forwarding address for the person responsible for the final bill.

Do you know who told us the property had changed hands? It may have been that party who gave us the address on the bill.

You say the landlord has spoken to us and told us you're not responsible for the final bill. Do you know if he has told us who is?

As jalexa says, a Tenancy Agreement carries particular weight in these matters and that's why we will have asked to see one.

I agree, it's important account details are correct and we provide several channels in which customers can give us the relevant details when moving in and out of properties, including online and by phone.

Unfortunately, if we're given incorrect info or, in some cases, no info at all, this type of issue can occur.

Malc

jalexa

undaunted wrote: »

If complaining to EOn why pay them in the meantime? They are hardly likely to want to give the money back afterwards.

That was not the *exact* advice I intended. The action of a formal complaint should stay the "debt-recovery" pending the outcome of the complaint, though it normal that any undisputed element of the account should be settled. That would be for the OP but it appears there must be a significant undisputed element.

Regarding liability, ISTM an issue is whether the agreement was a deemed agreement or a domestic supply agreement. The deemed agreement would run from the tenancy start date to the earlier of the tenancy end-date or the date the occupier notified a "house-move" final reading (ideally with a forwarding billing address). At that point the (apparent to the supplier), if not strict liability, would be "the Occupier" (or the letting agent in the case of a void period). The issue here seems to be the "tenant" has moved out (informally) without mitigating their position.

School of hard knocks unfortunately.

MissSarah

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc wrote: »

Hi MissSarah

When properties change hands, we rely on the information we're given being accurate.

This can be a bit of a problem sometimes where there are several changes in a short time or where other parties, like landlords and letting agents, are involved.

One piece of information we ask for is a forwarding address for the person responsible for the final bill.

Do you know who told us the property had changed hands? It may have been that party who gave us the address on the bill.

You say the landlord has spoken to us and told us you're not responsible for the final bill. Do you know if he has told us who is?

As jalexa says, a Tenancy Agreement carries particular weight in these matters and that's why we will have asked to see one.

I agree, it's important account details are correct and we provide several channels in which customers can give us the relevant details when moving in and out of properties, including online and by phone.

Unfortunately, if we're given incorrect info or, in some cases, no info at all, this type of issue can occur.

Malc

Hi Malc, thank you again for your reply. The Landlord told the energy company that the other tenant was responsible for the bill, and that is indeed why the correspondence has gone to the tenant's new address which I assume the Landlord provided. He did not however provide my address and I can only assume that is why I had not received an invoice or any correspondence from E.ON.

Terrylw1

Normally a tenancy agreement holds significant weight. However, your situation is different because you left the property part way through the current agreement and entered into another one.

So, the supplier/collection agent should accept proof that you were not living there and living elsewhere, knowing that you couldn't contribute to the consumption at the other property.

Did you comply with your landlord by giving the correct notice period? If so, can't your landlord simply provide something in writing to state they accepted your notice? This would legally be the end of your tenancy and the supplier would have to comply with it.

http://m.direct.gov.uk/syndicationController?action=view&param=DG_189123&utn=2e5df3f8352d4ad6a92a201206300003&backlink=true