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T&Cs good or bad?
Brooker_Dave
Posts: 5,196 Forumite
Do wordy T&Cs put you off bidding, heres some I spotted, silly or essential??
"These terms must be read in full. Failure to read these terms does not exempt you from them. If any one sites the reason that they didn’t know these terms existed, that wont suffice, these terms are written and are there to be read so please read to save yourself being upset.
Payment must be received by winning bidder within 24 hours of auction close. Failure to pay in this time scale will result in action being taken. On two occasions where a buyer failed to pay, we had to relist the item which then sold for less. We recovered the difference through the court system so don’t bother. If you are in any doubt about whether you can afford to pay, don’t bid.
We only accept PayPal, no other form of payment accepted whatsoever.
We prefer to deliver the synth to the address provided to us by ebay and PayPal for the buyer. However if the buyer wishes to collect in person, you are welcome to do so but you must understand that PayPal funds must have fully cleared before collection is made. When collection is made, you must sign our form stating that you have received the synthesiser. This is to ensure we don’t have items taken from us wrongfully. It is also designed to avoid the buyer committing PayPal fraud.
As stated we prefer delivery. Delivery prices are non negotiable. All prices quoted here include packing, packaging, delivery to your door and compensation cover up to winning bid of synth or damage repair cost which ever is least. The compensation cover also covers loss in transit.
Please note that given that we use gwizzcouriers, it is very rare that damage or loss happens.
Shipping costs including compensation cover:
UK Mainland estimated delivery time 1-2 day service where despatch takes place 3 days after payment cleared: £17.50p.
UK Highlands, Scottish highlands, outlying islands, Isle of Man, Northern Ireland and Channel Islands, on an estimated 2-6 day service where despatch takes place 3 days after payment fully clears: non-negotiable £39 (Please note Northern Ireland is considered by ebay as being part of mainland UK and you may be billed the wrong amount by ebay, please ignore this and seek our advice).
Shipping to EU member countries (does not include Norway and Switzerland) on an estimated 2-6 day service where despatch takes place 3 days after payment clears is a non negotiable £39.
Rest of world which includes Norway, Switzerland and any country which is NOT a member of the EU and includes every single world location which is non EU on an estimated 6-11 day service where despatch takes place 3 days after payment received is a flat £85.
Please note if you are a member buying this item and you live in a country which is not in the EU, you are wholly and totally liable for import duty, taxes and disbursements. Please check with your local tax authority as to what these duties and taxes will be prior to bidding. It is your responsibility to determine what these are. Please do not ask us as legally we are not required to advise you for such charges. Please also note if we ship the item to you and you fail to pay your duties and taxes, the item may be confiscated for ever and you will still be liable for these charges. You will not receive a refund if the item is confiscated or is returned to our offices because you fail to pay import duty, taxes and disbursements. You will also be liable for the entire cost of return to our office where that happens and you will be liable for the resending of the item again. Please ensure therefore that you know the amount of import duty due and that you are ready to pay it when your synth arrives. It will be payable to the courier delivering the synth or it will be payable to your local tax authority and is more and is an amount over and above your auction high bid and delivery cost to us. Don’t say we didn’t tell you, we have told you.
All items sent are provided with tracking information so that you know when the item will be delivered.
Please note if delivery fails twice because the buyer is not present at delivery location or because they refuse the item, the buyer is wholly and totally liable for the return journey cost to our offices and is liable for the cost of resending the item. No refund is allowed.
Refunds are not allowed under any circumstances except where the synth is legally deemed lost by the courier while in courier transit or where the synth is beyond economic repair because of damage in transit and where damage takes place prior to delivery signature.
If damage of any kind does take place while in transit and before delivery signature, the buyer is required to give us a fair and reasonable opportunity to have the synth repaired at our expense without seeking recourse to PayPal for refund. Again a reminder that refunds are not allowed except where synth is lost in transit before signature or damaged beyond economic repair before signature.
In order for the buyer to qualify for a claim because of damage, the buyer must check the synth before signing for it and if it is damaged, the buyer must sign for it as ‘damaged’ or broken. Any other type of signature will void any claim.
Buyers please check with PayPal that there are no limits imposed by PayPal for buying before you bid. Please also check that you have sufficient funds to pay your highest bid price before bidding. If you are unsure, don’t bid until you have checked.
Please bid responsibly. If you are in even so much as a tiny little bit of doubt, don’t bid until you are sure.
We want to keep ebay a safe trading place and a place where trust is upheld so please don’t spoil it for other people and lets keep this a good honest auction.
Check my feedback score and don’t forget gwizzcouriers.
Sorry for the slightly heavy stuff and thanks for looking.
Happy bidding."
"These terms must be read in full. Failure to read these terms does not exempt you from them. If any one sites the reason that they didn’t know these terms existed, that wont suffice, these terms are written and are there to be read so please read to save yourself being upset.
Payment must be received by winning bidder within 24 hours of auction close. Failure to pay in this time scale will result in action being taken. On two occasions where a buyer failed to pay, we had to relist the item which then sold for less. We recovered the difference through the court system so don’t bother. If you are in any doubt about whether you can afford to pay, don’t bid.
We only accept PayPal, no other form of payment accepted whatsoever.
We prefer to deliver the synth to the address provided to us by ebay and PayPal for the buyer. However if the buyer wishes to collect in person, you are welcome to do so but you must understand that PayPal funds must have fully cleared before collection is made. When collection is made, you must sign our form stating that you have received the synthesiser. This is to ensure we don’t have items taken from us wrongfully. It is also designed to avoid the buyer committing PayPal fraud.
As stated we prefer delivery. Delivery prices are non negotiable. All prices quoted here include packing, packaging, delivery to your door and compensation cover up to winning bid of synth or damage repair cost which ever is least. The compensation cover also covers loss in transit.
Please note that given that we use gwizzcouriers, it is very rare that damage or loss happens.
Shipping costs including compensation cover:
UK Mainland estimated delivery time 1-2 day service where despatch takes place 3 days after payment cleared: £17.50p.
UK Highlands, Scottish highlands, outlying islands, Isle of Man, Northern Ireland and Channel Islands, on an estimated 2-6 day service where despatch takes place 3 days after payment fully clears: non-negotiable £39 (Please note Northern Ireland is considered by ebay as being part of mainland UK and you may be billed the wrong amount by ebay, please ignore this and seek our advice).
Shipping to EU member countries (does not include Norway and Switzerland) on an estimated 2-6 day service where despatch takes place 3 days after payment clears is a non negotiable £39.
Rest of world which includes Norway, Switzerland and any country which is NOT a member of the EU and includes every single world location which is non EU on an estimated 6-11 day service where despatch takes place 3 days after payment received is a flat £85.
Please note if you are a member buying this item and you live in a country which is not in the EU, you are wholly and totally liable for import duty, taxes and disbursements. Please check with your local tax authority as to what these duties and taxes will be prior to bidding. It is your responsibility to determine what these are. Please do not ask us as legally we are not required to advise you for such charges. Please also note if we ship the item to you and you fail to pay your duties and taxes, the item may be confiscated for ever and you will still be liable for these charges. You will not receive a refund if the item is confiscated or is returned to our offices because you fail to pay import duty, taxes and disbursements. You will also be liable for the entire cost of return to our office where that happens and you will be liable for the resending of the item again. Please ensure therefore that you know the amount of import duty due and that you are ready to pay it when your synth arrives. It will be payable to the courier delivering the synth or it will be payable to your local tax authority and is more and is an amount over and above your auction high bid and delivery cost to us. Don’t say we didn’t tell you, we have told you.
All items sent are provided with tracking information so that you know when the item will be delivered.
Please note if delivery fails twice because the buyer is not present at delivery location or because they refuse the item, the buyer is wholly and totally liable for the return journey cost to our offices and is liable for the cost of resending the item. No refund is allowed.
Refunds are not allowed under any circumstances except where the synth is legally deemed lost by the courier while in courier transit or where the synth is beyond economic repair because of damage in transit and where damage takes place prior to delivery signature.
If damage of any kind does take place while in transit and before delivery signature, the buyer is required to give us a fair and reasonable opportunity to have the synth repaired at our expense without seeking recourse to PayPal for refund. Again a reminder that refunds are not allowed except where synth is lost in transit before signature or damaged beyond economic repair before signature.
In order for the buyer to qualify for a claim because of damage, the buyer must check the synth before signing for it and if it is damaged, the buyer must sign for it as ‘damaged’ or broken. Any other type of signature will void any claim.
Buyers please check with PayPal that there are no limits imposed by PayPal for buying before you bid. Please also check that you have sufficient funds to pay your highest bid price before bidding. If you are unsure, don’t bid until you have checked.
Please bid responsibly. If you are in even so much as a tiny little bit of doubt, don’t bid until you are sure.
We want to keep ebay a safe trading place and a place where trust is upheld so please don’t spoil it for other people and lets keep this a good honest auction.
Check my feedback score and don’t forget gwizzcouriers.
Sorry for the slightly heavy stuff and thanks for looking.
Happy bidding."
"Love you Dave Brooker! x"
"i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"
"i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"
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Comments
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Well theres loads there that they cannot force a buyer into doin, such as the payment within 24hrs.
Also they seem to think they are above the ebay/paypal terms, which would put me off bidding in the first place. Personally i see it as a whole load of hot air!
Paypal wouldnt give two hoots if the buyer had signed something upon collection...no proof of postage, refund given! It actually makes me laugh!0 -
Well theres loads there that they cannot force a buyer into doin, such as the payment within 24hrs.
Also they seem to think they are above the ebay/paypal terms, which would put me off bidding in the first place. Personally i see it as a whole load of hot air!
Paypal wouldnt give two hoots if the buyer had signed something upon collection...no proof of postage, refund given! It actually makes me laugh!
I was going to say, it gave me a good laugh, thanks OP.
Why spend ages writing unenforcable t&c's I wonder?0 -
I agree, terms that seem a little off or even aggressive put me off. If the sale goes wrong they will be a nightmare to deal with. I'm not sure there is any point in having terms other than in your returns and asking for payment in four days. The only terms that *seem* to be enforceable are those that eBay already enforce.I have had many Light Bulb Moments. The trouble is someone keeps turning the bulb off
1% over payments on cc 3.5/100 (March 2014)0 -
Some of that is required such as customs fees and increased courier rates to different areas but the seller clearly wants to deter abusive claims and it's all very badly worded.
Rather than say:
Please note that given that we use gwizzcouriers, it is very rare that damage or loss happens.
Which implies any claims made will be looked upon as false the seller would be smart to say something positive such as:
"We ensure all of our items are securely packaged and use a reputable courier to ensure a safe and secure delivery tracked to your front door"
The seller comes across as very poor when they could say the same with a spin to attempt to show they are great. In a way those terms are good as they tell you exactly what the seller is like and so allow you to hit the back button to find somewhere else to buy.In the game of chess you can never let your adversary see your pieces0 -
I was going to say, it gave me a good laugh, thanks OP.
Why spend ages writing unenforcable t&c's I wonder?
I keep looking at the OP and thinking...i actually read ALL of that!:rotfl::rotfl:
If i saw T&C's that long on a listing i wouldn't be purchasing from that seller, as was already mentioned the T&Cs by ebay/paypal are the only ones im interested in unless there are other postage options or a bit about returns, which does not take a foot and a half to explain!
0 -
I keep looking at the OP and thinking...i actually read ALL of that!:rotfl::rotfl:
If i saw T&C's that long on a listing i wouldn't be purchasing from that seller, as was already mentioned the T&Cs by ebay/paypal are the only ones im interested in unless there are other postage options or a bit about returns, which does not take a foot and a half to explain!
I'd like to see a courier waiting around for you to unpack the parcel to ensure no damage before signing for it.
Some damage is immediately obvious if the box is bashed up but sometimes it's not until you open something that you know.0 -
I keep looking at the OP and thinking...i actually read ALL of that!:rotfl::rotfl:
If i saw T&C's that long on a listing i wouldn't be purchasing from that seller, as was already mentioned the T&Cs by ebay/paypal are the only ones im interested in unless there are other postage options or a bit about returns, which does not take a foot and a half to explain!
That's just the bottom half, the description is hidden in between all the threats and demands and there's a top section of T&Cs too:
"Description to follow this note: Members with less than 10 feedback PLEASE DO NOT BID UNTIL you have received permission from me. In order to gain permission, members with less than 10 feedback will need to send me a message through the ebay messaging system providing their land address and landline telephone number. Mobile or cell phone numbers are not acceptable.
Members with 10 feedback or more are very welcome to bid without permission.
We will use our favourite parcel company gwizzcouriers who can be found on the web in the UK and are known on the web in the UK as gwizzcouriers. Our shipping prices are more than those of gwizzcouriers but we make our prices more to cover the cost of outstanding packaging and professional people to pack which is what we are, professional packers and we take our time over packing."
(http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=200766603576&nma=true&rt=nc&si=HjrIqCvcDoBSQY%252Be2RzHEBakYOc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_1742wt_1344)"Love you Dave Brooker! x"
"i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"0 -
Rather than say:
Please note that given that we use gwizzcouriers, it is very rare that damage or loss happens.
Which implies any claims made will be looked upon as false the seller would be smart to say something positive such as:
"We ensure all of our items are securely packaged and use a reputable courier to ensure a safe and secure delivery tracked to your front door"
The seller comes across as very poor when they could say the same with a spin to attempt to show they are great. In a way those terms are good as they tell you exactly what the seller is like and so allow you to hit the back button to find somewhere else to buy.
I can't help thinking the seller and gwhizz are linked somehow?"Love you Dave Brooker! x"
"i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"0 -
I'd like to see a courier waiting around for you to unpack the parcel to ensure no damage before signing for it.
Some damage is immediately obvious if the box is bashed up but sometimes it's not until you open something that you know.
It amazes me that people expect other people to refuse delivery if the items are damaged etc.
I don't often even get to see what is being delivered until I've signed for it, and it makes no difference in law.
I am very careful about who I buy from. I don't mind people covering their backs - but I do mind if they go about it in a hostile or selfish manner. It seems many sellers don't understand that buyers don't have to give them money. The more they put people off, the less they get. So why do people still think that way?"Well, it's election year, Bill, we'd rather people didn't exercise common sense..." - Jed Bartlet, The West Wing, season 4
Am now Crowqueen, MRes (Law) - on to the PhD!0 -
It amazes me that people expect other people to refuse delivery if the items are damaged etc.
More comedy T&Cs
"In terms of insurance cover on shipping, as stated earlier in the listing, insurance is provided at no extra charge. However, the insurance will be automatically voided as soon as you sign for the parcel. Therefore you are respectfully asked to inspect the parcel, open the parcel and check the synth in front of the driver and ask the driver to wait until you are satisfied that no damage has occurred in transit. The driver, unbeknown to many is legally required under the terms of the insurance to wait until you have made a full inspection of the item. The driver will dislike this and may well argue with you but if he refuses to allow you to inspect the goods, then let him take them away and inform us immediately whereupon we will contact the courier and deal with them accordingly. Remember, the moment you sign for this item as acceptable, the insurance ends and you will have no come back. Please no crying to PayPal over this issue, we have spelled it out to you and made it entirely clear. You agree by bidding on this auction that if you sign for the goods as the winning bidder and later find them to be faulty, you will have absolutely no warranty or recourse to claim funding back from us or PayPal.
We will kindly offer on this item only, a 40 day warranty whereby we agree that provided you have not committed negligence, deliberately damaged the synth or attempted to open or inspect the internals of this synth, we will be allowed as many attempts as it takes to mend the synth free of charge during the first 40 days after auction close. If we fail to mend the synth within 40 days, only then can you seek recompense from PayPal and not before. We are allowed as many attempts necessary to repair this synth. Analog synths are not easy to diagnose faults with and we will not offer refunds until after 40 days has expired and only then if the fault persists beyond the 40 days. If there are new faults arising after 40 days, these are not covered under any implied or unimplied warranty and the instrument at that point after 40 days after auction close becomes the entire responsibility of the buyer and the buyer agrees by bidding on this auction that they have no recourse to action against us whatsoever.
We offer no returns whatsoever and as stated above will always endeavour to repair the synth during the first 40 days after auction close but we have no further liability than this.
We have placed an invisible ink seal around the entire instrument and around all the screws. This will help us to determine whether the buyer has made a fraudulent attempt to open up the instrument. We are making this clear in the listing so that buyers realise they are not permitted to open up the instrument for the first 40 days after auction close. If it is determined by us that the buyer has opened up the instrument during the first 40 days after auction close, all warranties and insurance will be entirely void and the buyer will not be allowed to reclaim money from us or PayPal. We have made this clear.
We are really sorry to sound so grumpy but we have been done down too often on ebay and we are not going to put up with it any longer. Sellers now get a pretty roar deal and we are protecting ourselves. We are entirely aware that the majority of buyers are honest and trustworthy people but it is the few unscrupulous buyers who spoil it for everyone.
Many thanks for looking and don’t hesitate to ask any questions through the ebay messaging system.
One final thing, there is no buy it now price so don’t ask and I will not accept offers outside of ebay as this is not allowed.""Love you Dave Brooker! x"
"i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"0
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