UK Government Debt - Putting it in perspective

StevieJ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

House building requires skilled trained trades people.

Catering in general does not.

Partially true, but within the capability of most with training.

Thrugelmir

StevieJ wrote: »

Partially true, but within the capability of most with training.

Reversing trends takes time. Why bother learning a trade when flipping houses or being a mortgage broker. Resulted in a better income for far less hard work.

A high % of people work in retail. Where's the skill in that? Yet this is an area of serious decline. As a nation we have become increasingly underskilled.

LisaW123

Thrugelmir wrote: »

. As a nation we have become increasingly underskilled.

Could that be due to the ineffectual education system? GCSE question: How would you view the moon: (a) through a telescope?; (b) through a microscope?

The everyone is equal/has the same potential agenda has resulted in a system that churns out inadequates and stymies the brightest. What's worse, some of these inadequates seem to think they are intellectually gifted because they can correctly identify what instrument is used to view the moon. Many of the people at University now wouldn't have got near a University place even 20 years ago.

The education system seems to be promoting self-esteem. Fine in theory, but what it produces is a lot of over confident people who have little to be confident about.

Everyone does not have the same potential. Some people have above average intelligence, some below average and most fall somewhere in the middle. That is the Bell curve.

We will never produce the calibre of people required to regenerate our economy and compete globally with a dumbed down education system, where no-one fails but rather has "deferred success".

Thrugelmir

LisaW123 wrote: »

Everyone does not have the same potential. Some people have above average intelligence, some below average and most fall somewhere in the middle. That is the Bell curve.

We need people to have the opportunity. Intelligence is not everything. Having the ability is what counts.

LisaW123

Thrugelmir wrote: »

We need people to have the opportunity. Intelligence is not everything. Having the ability is what counts.

I don't believe the current education system benefits people with ability or intelligence. Those with ability will find a way to progress. Those with intelligence are stifled in an system that is skewed to the average-low end of the spectrum.

Thrugelmir

LisaW123 wrote: »

Those with ability will find a way to progress.

Still requires an opening with say an SME to learn say a skilled trade. That may take years to master. Skills die out. That's the danger. As they need to be taught and passed on.

CLAPTON

LisaW123 wrote: »

I don't believe the current education system benefits people with ability or intelligence. Those with ability will find a way to progress. Those with intelligence are stifled in an system that is skewed to the average-low end of the spectrum.

there's no doubt that the exam syllabus and exam systems need radical overall and we need to teach proper maths, proper science and proper reading and writing skills and get rid of all the junk 'themes' based learning and all the junk that's suppose to be interesting rather than instructive..

However, at the bottom end of the ability scales we need to provide suitable training so that the these people can get jobs and make a contribution to society.

zagubov

CLAPTON wrote: »

there's no doubt that the exam syllabus and exam systems need radical overall and we need to teach proper maths, proper science and proper reading and writing skills and get rid of all the junk 'themes' based learning and all the junk that's suppose to be interesting rather than instructive..

However, at the bottom end of the ability scales we need to provide suitable training so that the these people can get jobs and make a contribution to society.

In the 19th century they proposed to supply free public education in England and these words were part of the debate:

"I venture to maintain that it is quite possible to teach a child soundly and thoroughly, in a way that he shall not forget it, all that is necessary for him to possess in the shape of intellectual attainment by the time he is ten years old.

If he has been properly looked after in the lower classes he shall be able to spell correctly the words that he will ordinarily have to use;

he shall read a common narrative—the paragraph in the newspaper he cares to read—with sufficient ease to be a pleasure to himself and to convey information to listeners;

if gone to live a distance from home, he shall write his mother a letter that shall be both legible and intelligible;

he knows enough of ciphering to make out or test the correctness of a common shop bill;

if he hears talk of foreign countries he has some notion as to the part of thehabitable globe in which they lie;

and underlying all, and not without its influence, I trust, upon his life and conversation, he has acquaintance enough with the Holy Scriptures to follow the allusions and arguments of a plain Saxon sermon, and a sufficient recollection of the truths taught him in his catechism to know what are the duties required of him towards his Maker and his fellow man"

Would all our ten-year-olds be able to do this now?:A

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

Would all our ten-year-olds be able to do this now?:A

A very good quote although I am certain that all 10 years old then were not capable of achieving that standard.

Sadly however, I think that many of our teachers are insufficiently ambitious for our children.

zagubov

CLAPTON wrote: »

A very good quote although I am certain that all 10 years old then were not capable of achieving that standard.

Sadly however, I think that many of our teachers are insufficiently ambitious for our children.

You're probably right -it was a goal to aim at.

Teachers are pretty ambitious for our kids; but something else happens. Would you agree that a kid that could manage this at ten might seem like a freak of nature now? (the newspaper he cares to read!).

By the way I've started a thread if anyone would rather discuss this away from this thread so we don't hijack it.