UK Government Debt - Putting it in perspective

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

Rather silly comments...the ordinary citizen gained a much better standard of living.

You might want to read a little further:

Bread, which had been reduced in quality during the war but not formally controlled, was rationed from 1946 to 1948; potato rationing began in 1947.....the end of all food rationing did not come until 4 July 1954

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_the_United_Kingdom#World_War_II

Bread and potatoes were the two absolute staples of the British diet, at that time.

This is a good read:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Austerity-Britain-1945-1951-Tales-Jerusalem/dp/0747599238

As to the building massive numbers of houses, the Austerity period was when enforced slum clearances were introduced and tower blocks erected in their place.

Generali

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

http://www.amazon.co.uk/King-Leopolds-Ghost-Heroism-Colonial/dp/0330441981

A stunningly good book.

During expeditions, Force Publique soldiers were instructed to bring back a hand or head for each bullet fired, to make sure that none had been wasted or hidden for use in rebellions. A soldier with the chilling title “keeper of hands” accompanied each expedition.
A wasted bullet would often mean mutilation for someone alive.

Something to remind people when they think Africa's problems are nothing to do with colonialism.

One for my ever expanding list I think.

I have no doubt that the continuing problems in The Congo are related to the barbaric rule by the Belgians. It was a country ruled as a if it were a Corporation: taking 2 pens from the stationery cupboard where 1 would do would be an act of treason and punished by corporal or capital punishment on the whim of a middle manager.

I have no doubt that the Nations of Africa will sort themselves out in time, rather like the Europeans and various parts of Asia have.

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

You might want to read a little further:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_the_United_Kingdom#World_War_II

Bread and potatoes were the two absolute staples of the British diet, at that time.

This is a good read:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Austerity-Britain-1945-1951-Tales-Jerusalem/dp/0747599238

As to the building massive numbers of houses, the Austerity period was when enforced slum clearances were introduced and tower blocks erected in their place.

rationing was a continuation of the war austerity and as you say was abolished (whilst reducing our debt)

don't building houses to replace slums count as building houses? (whilst reducing our debt)

so I seems that you fully agree that whilst reducing debt it was also possible to expand gdp, build more house, abolish rationing, etc etc.

that of course doesn't prove that the debt reduction shouldn't be the sole objective of current UK economic policy but it does indicate that there are other alternative ways forward

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

rationing was a continuation of the war austerity and as you say was abolished (whilst reducing our debt)

don't building houses to replace slums count as building houses? (whilst reducing our debt)

so I seems that you fully agree that whilst reducing debt it was also possible to expand gdp, build more house, abolish rationing, etc etc.

that of course doesn't prove that the debt reduction shouldn't be the sole objective of current UK economic policy but it does indicate that there are other alternative ways forward

Thank you for putting up several straw men for me; I hope you enjoyed knocking them down.

The reality is that rationing was extended during the post-war period: housing was built but not houses that people actually wanted to live in, instead they got tower blocks; GDP was expanded (albeit much of that through the 'broken window fallacy').

In the end rationing was abolished clearly: you no longer have rationing now. That it remained in place for 9 years after The Bomb was dropped and became harsher for most of the last 5 years of the 1940s than the first 5 seems to be a fact you want to gloss over.

StevieJ

CLAPTON wrote: »

so I seems that you fully agree that whilst reducing debt it was also possible to expand gdp, build more house, abolish rationing, etc etc.

Not to mention a vast expansion of the welfare state.

CLAPTON

StevieJ wrote: »

Not to mention a vast expansion of the welfare state.

indeed so which supports my argument

StevieJ

CLAPTON wrote: »

indeed so which supports my argument

And a fast dwindling empire to exploit

purch

History is very interesting, but of !!!! all use in solving the current economic problems.

zagubov

Didn't Britain spend years slaving in factories producing goods we weren't allowed to buy because they were for export only?

Carrying ID cards, putting up with armed police (I think only New Zealand had unarmed police at that point, and still does) having dockers rioting at having to handle German goods, cities being riddled by bomb sites and unexploded munitions, insufficient coal to heat us through deadly winters?

Pleased to live in factory-built pre-fab houses. No way to travel abroad (as we couldn't carry money).

Not a decade that was celebrated much in fiction or the media ( and when you do see it you shiver!).

I've heard that rationing took longer to die out than wikipedia suggests and coal shortages were still occuring in parts of Yorkshire in late 1958 (when I was but an embryo).

purch wrote: »

History is very interesting, but of !!!! all use in solving the current economic problems.

A world history GCSE (1870 onwards) should be part of everyone's education I reckon (if it still exists as a syllabus- it did in the late 80s). Just checked my textbook which claimed that Venezuela founded OPEC as it's oil would run out by 1988- did that happen?:)

Thrugelmir

vivatifosi wrote: »

Out of interest, in the days before a truly international finance system, for a balance of payments who were we borrowing the money from? It sounds like we spent a lot of time at war with the other countries with money. (I'm hoping someone will save me the hassle of reading a huge Niall Ferguson tome to find out).

WW2 - Canada and USA lent money at a fixed rate of 2%. Final repayment being made on the 29th December 2006.

One of the largest post war creditors was India. India was repaid almost immediately as that time became independent of UK rule.