We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
Debate House Prices
In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide
Counting the kids
Comments
-
To reduce public spending we need a considered and joined-up approach. We may even need to invest up-front to save later.chewmylegoff wrote: »answer the question - how would you cut the benefits bill, or do you think that it's not necessary and we can keep spending 30% more than HMRC collects in tax revenues forever?
Ideological slash-and-burn doesn't even work, it just results in people dumping costs from one budget to another and finding ways to fiddle the books.
We're cutting benefits in a way that will result in more old or disabled people in hospital and more kids in care. Install the handrails and save on the broken hips.
Prisons are the new asylums. Half the people in them are mentally handicapped or mentally ill. They need looking after, we don't look after them, we end up looking after them anyway, very expensively.
A social support system that gives people the support they need works out cheapest.
What a lot of people need is a job. It's simply not the case that there are enough jobs out there for everybody to get one if they want one. We need to create jobs. And we need to create jobs that are matched to the limitations of the people who need the jobs. No use complaining that ex-cons and people with low IQs live on benefits if nobody will employ them. It beggars belief that we're closing Remploy.
And the other thing we need is a culture of respect. People won't go to work to be treated as scum. There are people on this board that I wouldn't work for, because of their obnoxious attitude to anybody they regard as inferior."It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0 -
Whilst I concur with many of your sentiments....I am a bit puzzled that you seem to lay the blame primarily at women ( see your prior posts). Single mothers, specifically.
I have no vested interest since I don't have kids myself. But as a fellow woman I find that more than mildly offensive.
Why not hold the chaps who fathered said children more directly responsible? It's a rather ossified viewpoint: young women falls pregnant = SHE is the sole culprit and the drain on society. But what about the person who GOT her pregnant?
Perhaps, we as a society, we should focus more on educating young men about the ramifications of their actions. I don't mean soft, woolly talks about " moral responsibility" and some such. I mean concrete action such as ....I don't know, the certainty that their car, their laptops, their mobiles, whatever would be reposessed instantly. Now THAT is a language which would make a young guy hastily reach for a condom. "Societal responsibility".... meh, not so much.
Or possibly cutting off more than their benefits
OK 'twas a joke.0 -
Girl meets bloke. Bloke moves in. Looks like he's there to stay. Girl stops taking Pill, gets pregnant. Thinks OK, no problem, got a bloke to support me. Is that wrong? Should she think, all blokes are unreliable pigs, and go straight round to the abortion clinic?These, and the people who are constantly bleating about their "rights" to have children even when they haven't a cat in hell's chance of supporting one child, let alone half a dozen, are the people I object to.
Baby is born, bloke is no longer centre of attention, girl is no fun any more, bloke meets new girl, etc.
Whose fault? Not the kid's."It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0 -
Whilst I concur with many of your sentiments....I am a bit puzzled that you seem to lay the blame primarily at women ( see your prior posts). Single mothers, specifically.
I have no vested interest since I don't have kids myself. But as a fellow woman I find that more than mildly offensive.
Why not hold the chaps who fathered said children more directly responsible? It's a rather ossified viewpoint: young women falls pregnant = SHE is the sole culprit and the drain on society. But what about the person who GOT her pregnant?
Perhaps, we as a society, we should focus more on educating young men about the ramifications of their actions. I don't mean soft, woolly talks about " moral responsibility" and some such. I mean concrete action such as ....I don't know, the certainty that their car, their laptops, their mobiles, whatever would be reposessed instantly. Now THAT is a language which would make a young guy hastily reach for a condom. "Societal responsibility".... meh, not so much.
I actually meant men as well as women bleating about their rights to have a child. You are quite correct, the men involved are just as responsible. I suspect many of them will not have cars mind, unless they are twok'd.0 -
Girl meets bloke. Bloke moves in. Looks like he's there to stay. Girl stops taking Pill, gets pregnant. Thinks OK, no problem, got a bloke to support me. Is that wrong? Should she think, all blokes are unreliable pigs, and go straight round to the abortion clinic?
Baby is born, bloke is no longer centre of attention, girl is no fun any more, bloke meets new girl, etc.
Whose fault? Not the kid's.
No, it is the fault of the child's parents, and there is every chance the child will grow up to be just like them and perpetuate the cycle.
Actually I do think that kind of attitude is wrong. in the scenario you describe the couple clearly do not know each other well enough to even contemplate starting a family.0 -
Living on benefits isn't as much fun as the Daily Mail thinks.
Don't read the DM, but my first hand experience, a lot of it through work (lettings agency in particular in here) is that many enjoy a fantastic life on welfare as they milk every possible teat even down to a mobility car and bare in mind often have a secret partner working or even work themselves on the side.
It is you my freind that needs to get your head out the papers and go find reality.
Go mingle with bouncer types - you might just start to get what I'm on about. £80k Merc 4x4s and shopping in Bond st is exactly waht some of our HB tenants get up to, oh and not to mention thier falsly claimed council place they sublet, in order to get a juicy right to buy iscount and then flog after 5 years.
2 of my mates are Guardian reader types, great freinds and all but so incredibly neave about Human nature.0 -
How about a system thats in place to help those who have kids but are made unemployed, but that doesnt support couples who dont have a job and decide to have kids?Girl meets bloke. Bloke moves in. Looks like he's there to stay. Girl stops taking Pill, gets pregnant. Thinks OK, no problem, got a bloke to support me. Is that wrong? Should she think, all blokes are unreliable pigs, and go straight round to the abortion clinic?
Baby is born, bloke is no longer centre of attention, girl is no fun any more, bloke meets new girl, etc.
Whose fault? Not the kid's.0 -
Girl meets bloke. Bloke moves in. Looks like he's there to stay. Girl stops taking Pill, gets pregnant. Thinks OK, no problem, got a bloke to support me. Is that wrong?
Responsible girls can generally spot a wrong - un and don;t just shack up after a few months. It's all about being cautious and responsible just as the majority manage to be.
People like you for ever excusing others is the root cause of the place we're in now. If only you guys would get real.
I think I've worked out why some folk are so neave. It's down to the air they give off which influences those around them.
See I just get inside others minds and what makes them tick and I sorta go along as if I'm one of them, and sure enough they tell you who they really are. Try it sometime. Say things like 'oh yea I usedf to take Ketamine and have 48 hour play station parties' - see how people then open up - it's amazing nwhat they reveal.0 -
Man is raising 4 kids by two different mothers, both of whom have left and shacked up with other men and maybe had more kids to go with their not-officially-stepkids.
Who's got how many kids Dave?
Now worry about the nieces, grandkids, foster kids etc. And the kids who have two families because they split their time between their parents.
From the beginning, in what way is "man is raising 4 kids" man actually raising the kids? He is not living with them, not providing financially for them given that he is not working, is he actually raising them in a meaningful way/
I think of kids who split their time between parents as having two bedrooms, 2 wardrobes of clothes, 2 desks to sit at for their homework etc. In chav land split time means dumping on whoever is around and kipping down for the night wherever is easiest and probably not always in a bedroom - or even the same bedroom as some random step sibling. No structure or routine.I'm a Forum Ambassador on the housing, mortgages & student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.0 -
I've heard the stories, I used to have contacts in the DSS.It is you my freind that needs to get your head out the papers and go find reality.
I think it's useful to make a distinction between people who qualify for their benefits and people who're just criminals committing fraud.oh and not to mention thier falsly claimed council place they sublet, in order to get a juicy right to buy iscount and then flog after 5 years.
I used to read the Daily Mail, but I've never read the Guardian.` Paper shops round here don't even seem to sell it. No call for being patronised by arty middle-class pseudo-intellectuals on ludicrous salaries who understand nothing.2 of my mates are Guardian reader types, great freinds and all but so incredibly neave about Human nature."It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 353.6K Banking & Borrowing
- 254.2K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 455.1K Spending & Discounts
- 246.7K Work, Benefits & Business
- 603.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 178.1K Life & Family
- 260.7K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards