University league tables

kateo

Not a finance question - but I know these forums are the font of all wisdom

Which is the most reliable league table to look at for universities? I've looked on a few ( Guardian, Complete Uni Guide.... ) & some of the rankings vary wildly.

Thank you.

Voyager2002

None of them are particularly reliable, since they measure different things.

You need to read explanations of the different things that are measured by different tables, decide which of these things are important to you, and choose a table that reflects your priorities. Do be aware that many universities have effective PR machines and work very hard to get themselves high places in the tables. For example, there are surveys of student satisfaction and some unis pay students to return positive responses.

I would imagine that one question that is important to you is, which university is most likely to get me a good job afterwards. All universities keep records of what happens to their graduates in the first year or so after leaving, so get hold of that information and use it to make your choice.

V_Chic_Chick

League tables are a load of nonsense IMHO. They are put together using vastly different criteria (spending, student satisfaction, average entry points etc.), and by manipulating what criteria the league table is based on (and the weighting given to each criteria), it is possible to get a league table to say whatever you wish. There was one a while back that put Bucks New at the top - 'nuff said!

What is it that you wish to find out from looking at league tables - prestige, best departments for a certain subject or something else?

Lies, damn lies and statistics!

kateo

On my daughter's behalf - she looking at doing English Lang in 2013.

And yes - I had already thought how open to manipulation it all seemed.... So thanks for confirming it really!!

The_One_Who

Not only is the data manipulated and weighted differently, in some cases it is woefully out of date.

Really, what your daughter needs to do is to look at what she is interested in and what sort of university experience she is wanting; being in the heart of London will be very different to studying in Aberystwyth, for example. The course content (for ALL years, not just the first year), whilst subject to changes, can give a general overview of what sort of work the department is doing and what sort of content she can expect.

In an ideal world she will also visit the campuses. I'd always advocate doing so on a "normal" day, rather than a specific open day so that she can see what it is normally like in terms of how busy it is and what the atmosphere is like.

melancholly

Think of them as a general help - there probably is a difference between somewhere ranked in the top 10 and somewhere at about 80...... but the difference between 35 and 40 isn't really meaningful. Have a look at tables by subject as well as by institution.

They aren't total rubbish but equally they aren't the most important thing (despite what the unis at the top will tell you!). Broadly speaking the grades required will be similar for similar 'standard' unis. There are always exceptions though. There really isn't any one perfect solution - but remember that unis are big, very diverse places (even the small, campus based ones!). Almost everyone will find their niche almost everywhere.

nimbo

I'd say go and spend a day at the university - have lunch in the SU - gauge how big it is....

Look around the campus on your own terms pop into the library use the catalogue to see how many of the key texts they have for the subject that will be studied. Ask how students can reserve items that are popular and how many requests it takes to actually get more copies of the books ordered... (buying some can be really cheap, say a novel for English but for the law module of my course books were £80 - £100, and they go out of date very quickly so if you only need them for one assignment not very cost effective). See if there are bulletin boards advertising second hand text books - do they have an on campus book store - my last uni did, and they sopld secons hand texts and sourced some out of print books for my English degree when we had no other way of getting our hands on them...

call the admin staff to see if they are helpful she may need them to assist her in some way - IE room bookings, and if they are obtuse and unhelpful this can be awkward.... (The women in our departments office are great, and for example are happy to pop things into tutors pigeon holes if they cannot be found)...

Look around the town or city it is in, because she will be spending a lot of time in it. figure out how far a supermarket is from halls, and how easy it would be to park a car around them and if it would cost a bomb....

Look at other student housing while you are there as most students spend first year in halls, and then moved into a shared house for 2nd and 3rd....

Then pair this with an academic ranking system for the specific subject to be studied, and fees and hey presto!!!!! you've come up with your own ranking system based on the information that you gather....

yertiz_2

All of the above... The Times University Guide has lots of useful info, can get it from Amazon, latest one just come out as I have purchased one for my daughter.

bouncydog1

I'd also suggest your daughter joins the student room www.studentroom.co.uk

She can then look at what the courses offer, also look at what the Uni's offer and most important of all, get feedback from students who are actually there doing the subject.

Other things that need to be taken into account is location from home, whether lots of "local students" attend the Uni, as odds are they will go home at weekends. Also have a look at the student union sites to see what recreational activity is offered. I would also suggest that you do go to the Uni on Open Days as that way you find out an awful lot on what is offered and can also ask questions.

DD visited 9 Unis that she liked the look of after doing all of the above. None of them ticked the boxes until she went to the last one and it just "felt right". This is a far better way of gauging rather than looking at the league tables IMHO.

Forgot to add that you can also access the various guides free in your local library. The Times also provides the free Uni guide as a supplement but not sure when it comes out.

DalePie

You really need to understand:

- What your DD wants to do.
- How high up the ladder she wants to get.
- What level of knowledge/education she will need (Bsc/Msc etc etc).
- What the accepted way to get there is.

Once you understand that you must research every course out there and look on forums like the student room. Also never be scared to look at Metro Uni's or ex Polytechnics. Quite often these universities are the research leader in one sector so always look at the course and the level of expertise / research NOT the university!

And always visit the Uni too! They are not all the same and what might fit one person may not fit another. Some uni's will cram 300> people into the lecture hall whilst others will fit 30< lmao! Some universities do also trade on their name alot at the expense of the actual education your DD will get! Always be careful when dealing with these types of uni's. Often the course is complete pants!

Always look at the syllabus too. Some courses like Computer Science offer a basic education in discrete maths et all but leave you to learn the actual programming languages largely to yourself to learn. Okay for many but some will struggle with this. Research is key!

Just make sure she loves the subject and is prepared for it. Especially if its anything science/maths/tech related as these can be tough for the uninterested.

Other than that good luck! I have made my choices (Hence why this reply is quite long) and start this Sept. I ended up doing a more vocational degree at a local Met first with the capability to do a more academic Masters after. After lots of research it seemed the best way to cover all the angles.

Hope that helps!

The_One_Who

Whilst I agree with most of the above, it should be the daughter who is doing all the research and legwork, not her mother!