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Best Full size integrated dishwasher for under £400?
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We are on our second Hotpoint free standing, first lasted 15 years.
They have two, one under £250 and the other under £300.
Not convinced that Bosch is as good as it once was.
Miele has its followers if you want to spend that much."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
quality rating is all about averages and on averages a BSH or Miele will outlast most other products on the market.
Sure there may be a 20yr old hotpoint there, but I fairly sure that for every 20 yr old hotpoint there are 10 BSH ones.
You are very unlikely to get a bad product from BSH.We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
quality rating is all about averages and on averages a BSH or Miele will outlast most other products on the market.
Sure there may be a 20yr old hotpoint there, but I fairly sure that for every 20 yr old hotpoint there are 10 BSH ones.
You are very unlikely to get a bad product from BSH.
I think it is probably more the point that there are much greater numbers of bog standard ones in use, that they tend to get heavy utilisation that sees them appear to "fail more".
BOSCH used to be good.
If you end up changing it 10 years down the line does it matter if it costs only half as much? Styles change, especially for free standing and I am not so sure lasting for 20 years would always be necessary in this day and age, not too mention moving house.
BOSCH used to be good.
BOSCH and Miele is choice it doesn't mean it is any more efficacious."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Looks exactly like my Bosch that was about that price and I commented on above - I imagine its the same unit with a different badge.
BOSCH/NEFF are part of the BSH group as you surmise."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Very few manufacturers necessarily build in the long life expected from older machines and that certainly includes companies like Hotpoint who still fool people with their 5 year parts awrrrnty which is pretty meaningless when you havae to pay their £££ labour rates to use it (and you will certainly use it!)
OP as you want integrated as many seem to have missed then the reality is you will get less machine for your money as the integrated models from most manufacturers are generally a lot more expensive than their equivalent free standing model
We have had a Siemens uintegrated for a few years now and performs well. Cost just a shade under £400 then but not sure you will find it for that now - but it did come with a Siemens 5 year parts AND labour warranty which is worth having0 -
Kitchen_DesignR wrote: »I'm not sure how this works.
There's no difference between the internal works of any of those dishwasher compared to their integrated counterparts.
They would use the same pump, internal racking and mechanism
The only difference is the controls on the doors.
There's a difference with washing machines tho (normally drum size) and this effects the washing process.
I don't think it's true that they use exactly the same internal components - otherwise they wouldn't perform differently would they? I think the manufacturers put more work into developing new parts & processes for the free standing models because they sell more of them ... and it takes a while for those new parts and processes to be incorporated into the integrated models.
Bosch have just changed all their models - so there may be some better ones around that Which? haven't tested yet. But - like quite a few of the manufacturers - Bosch are trying to stop the internet sellers from discounting the prices so much.
Bosch, Siemens and Neff may all be made by the same manufacturer - but there are considerable differences between models ... that's why it's a good idea to check the technical spec for each one you're looking at.
Which? do their own tests on individual models - and then incorporate the results with an overall rating for the reliability of the brand for that particular appliance. Some of the less expensive Hotpoint dishwashers performed really well - but none of them are Best Buys because of the low reliability of Hotpoint dishwashers on average.
P.S It's perhaps worth noting that it doesn't mean low reliability full stop. They just weren't as reliable as the Miele, Neff, Siemens and Bosch dishwashers. On the whole dishwashers are all fairly reliable.
The results weren't due to the overall numbers of Hotpoint machines being higher either. The surveys are carried out amongst Which members, don't forget - so by far the highest proportion of machines reported on, actually came from Bosch.I write blogs about kitchens ... and I design kitchens for a living ... I just love kitchens!0 -
I don't think it's true that they use exactly the same internal components - otherwise they wouldn't perform differently would they?
They wash dishes don't they? No doubt the temperature has one of the biggest factors.
Bosch have just changed all their models - so there may be some better ones around that Which? haven't tested yet. But - like quite a few of the manufacturers - Bosch are trying to stop the internet sellers from discounting the prices so much.
No different to any major branded goods trying to protecting their market and distributors endeavouring to create an air of exclusivity.
Bosch, Siemens and Neff may all be made by the same manufacturer - but there are considerable differences between models ... that's why it's a good idea to check the technical spec for each one you're looking at.
Like these for example
http://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/smv50c00gb/bosch-smv50c00gb-classixx-fully-integrated-dishwasher#maindesc
http://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p/s51e50x1gb/neff-s51e50x1gb-series-2-fully-integrated-dishwasher#maindesc
P.S It's perhaps worth noting that it doesn't mean low reliability full stop. They just weren't as reliable as the Miele, Neff, Siemens and Bosch dishwashers. On the whole dishwashers are all fairly reliable.
Don't dispute there are different specifications within ranges."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
I'm not sure what your point is Grizzly.
Some Neff, Bosch and Siemens models may be identical - but not all of them are - and some models are newer than others, so I reckon you need to look at the technical specs when you're choosing (which is exactly what you did ... to show that those two do seem to be identical!)
When I did a review of dishwashers last year (for Yell.com) water consumption (for a full sized model) varied from 7 litres per load to 17 litres per load ... with the integrated models often consuming the most water. That's a big difference ... especially if you're on a water metre. Hopefully the worst ones have improved since then but I'd still check.
So - yes - they all wash dishes but the performance can vary a lot.I write blogs about kitchens ... and I design kitchens for a living ... I just love kitchens!0 -
I'm not sure what your point is Grizzly.
Some Neff, Bosch and Siemens models may be identical - but not all of them are - and some models are newer than others, so I reckon you need to look at the technical specs when you're choosing (which is exactly what you did ... to show that those two do seem to be identical!)
When I did a review of dishwashers last year (for Yell.com) water consumption (for a full sized model) varied from 7 litres per load to 17 litres per load ... with the integrated models often consuming the most water. That's a big difference ... especially if you're on a water metre. Hopefully the worst ones have improved since then but I'd still check.
So - yes - they all wash dishes but the performance can vary a lot.
It easy to add new clothes to a design and add a couple of bells and whistles to "enhance"/differentiate a product.
Rebadging with different/higher value brands is no different to a lot of consumer items, charging a premium in the process..
You are quite right to review the actual specifications and things like the power/water consumption are very important in the "green world" of today and in the interest of our pockets. As you say specifications hopefully improve whilst also making the product more cost effective to produce.
Whether you live in hard water/soft water area will also make a difference to performance and resilience."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0
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