Help Needed! Ryanair charged me to check in bag of duty free

Doshwaster

Easy solution. Just make sure your carry-on bag is big enough for that bottle of whisky and a large toblerone.

It's a stupid rule but I don't think you are going to get anywhere arguing with them.

budgetflyer

At a time when Spain is on its knees, you would think they would be trying to encourage airlines to fly in.
Ryanair seems to spend an awful amount of time in court battling this + that in Spain.
There comes a time when they might just think -is it worth it.
They have decimated their winter routes to Girona.

jpsartre

And easyJet has just announced that they are pulling their base from Madrid, citing the increase in airport charges as part of the reason.

HelenaHandcart

Contract terms and conditions cannot overide the law. It seems that Ryanair's 'one bag only' policy clearly contravenes Spanish Law (e.g. /live.kyero.com/2012/05/15/facua-says-ryanair-baggage-limit-illegal/) which means that Ryanair is not entitled to enforce the condition. The OP is entitled to a refund but good luck on getting that out of Ryanair!

Louisdf

HelenaHandcart wrote: »

Contract terms and conditions cannot overide the law. It seems that Ryanair's 'one bag only' policy clearly contravenes Spanish Law (e.g. /live.kyero.com/2012/05/15/facua-says-ryanair-baggage-limit-illegal/) which means that Ryanair is not entitled to enforce the condition. The OP is entitled to a refund but good luck on getting that out of Ryanair!

Well legally Ryanair could impose a no hand luggage atall ban (or like a carrier in the US who charges for hand luggage) so I don't see how the OP would be elegible for a refund. Unfortunately, Ryanair's terms and conditions will always override FACUA, regardless of how unfair they may seem. I do feel sorry for the OP, but you must always follow Ryanair's terms and conditions to the letter if you don't want to face extra fees at the departure gate. Was it not possible to return the goods to the store before you took the flight? If I was in the position and the goods were less than 50 euros, I would smash the bottle on the floor. The gate staff probably wanted you to leave it behind so they could either drink or sell it.

HelenaHandcart

Louisdf wrote: »

Well legally Ryanair could impose a no hand luggage atall ban (or like a carrier in the US who charges for hand luggage) so I don't see how the OP would be elegible for a refund. Unfortunately, Ryanair's terms and conditions will always override FACUA, regardless of how unfair they may seem. I do feel sorry for the OP, but you must always follow Ryanair's terms and conditions to the letter if you don't want to face extra fees at the departure gate. Was it not possible to return the goods to the store before you took the flight? If I was in the position and the goods were less than 50 euros, I would smash the bottle on the floor. The gate staff probably wanted you to leave it behind so they could either drink or sell it.

If the law in Spain is that passengers can carry possessions aboard with them then Ryanair could not legally impose a complete ban. Contracts have to be within the law and is seems that, in this case, Ryanair is breaking the law in Spain.

david39

Under what circumstances would a government pass a law that countermanded the T&Cs of a foreign airline to restrict the amount of hand luggage passengers may carry?

I don't think it's the law of Spain at all - too trivial a point to legislate over.

More likely that it is a general ruling made by that airport management team to use as a bargaining point about more important issues as contracts come up for renewal - "OK, Senor O'Leary, you bring us 10% more passengers and we'll take down our notices about baggage restrictions!"

jpsartre

david39 wrote: »

I don't think it's the law of Spain at all - too trivial a point to legislate over.

That was my initial thought as well. The idea that a country would legislate on what an airline must allow as carry-on is mind boggling.

Let's not forget that the Spanish authorities at one point also claimed it was against the law to require that passengers print their boarding pass from home. This was later overruled.

HelenaHandcart

jpsartre wrote: »

That was my initial thought as well. The idea that a country would legislate on what an airline must allow as carry-on is mind boggling.

I don't think it is that specific. According to live.kyero.com/2012/05/15/facua-says-ryanair-baggage-limit-illegal/

"Law 48/1960 of 21st July, on Air Navigation states in Article 97 that “it shall not be considered luggage, any objects and hand luggage that travellers carry with them.” The rule is specific that “the carrier must transport free of charge in the cabin as hand luggage, objects and packages carried by the traveller, including items purchased at shops located at airports.” “The shipment of these items and packages will only be refused,” says the rule, “in response to security reasons, linked to weight or size of the object in relation to the characteristics of the aircraft.”"

According to this what the law actually says is that things you carry into the cabin are not 'luggage' therefore passengers are entitled to take them aboard as part of the original fare. The law appears to date back to 1960 when fewer people flew and the only things that people took into the cabin were valuables and whatever was needed for the duration of the flight (e.g. a book and a sweater).

It's clearly a matter of interpretation and will have to be decided by a court. However, Ryanair cannot argue that its T&Cs take precedence over the law. What it can (and does) argue is that Spanish law does not apply to a company registered in Ireland and that is an argument it is unlikely to win if the courts decide that the law does, in fact, prevent airlines charging extra to carry airport purchases (in additional bags).

callum9999

HelenaHandcart wrote: »

I don't think it is that specific. According to live.kyero.com/2012/05/15/facua-says-ryanair-baggage-limit-illegal/

"Law 48/1960 of 21st July, on Air Navigation states in Article 97 that “it shall not be considered luggage, any objects and hand luggage that travellers carry with them.” The rule is specific that “the carrier must transport free of charge in the cabin as hand luggage, objects and packages carried by the traveller, including items purchased at shops located at airports.” “The shipment of these items and packages will only be refused,” says the rule, “in response to security reasons, linked to weight or size of the object in relation to the characteristics of the aircraft.”"

According to this what the law actually says is that things you carry into the cabin are not 'luggage' therefore passengers are entitled to take them aboard as part of the original fare. The law appears to date back to 1960 when fewer people flew and the only things that people took into the cabin were valuables and whatever was needed for the duration of the flight (e.g. a book and a sweater).

It's clearly a matter of interpretation and will have to be decided by a court. However, Ryanair cannot argue that its T&Cs take precedence over the law. What it can (and does) argue is that Spanish law does not apply to a company registered in Ireland and that is an argument it is unlikely to win if the courts decide that the law does, in fact, prevent airlines charging extra to carry airport purchases (in additional bags).

As Ryanair planes have no room to carry an extra duty-free bag per person (they struggle with the one-bag rule!) - surely that's a good defence then.

Though that's an absolutely ridiculous law anyway (unless specific details have been lost in translation) - if you're going to ignore size limitations, what's stopping everyone bringing a 40kg suitcase on board. While they can't argue their T&Cs take precedence, they can of course just ignore it on the basis of it being a silly, unenforceable law.