G24 Parking charge

elliep_2

Sorry to be re-visiting this but I just received the 2nd letter and I'm a bit worried.

The thing that I don't understand is why what they are doing is wrong?
They have signs up in the car park in question, I didn't notice them but they are there. So, they put up signs detailing how long I was allowed to stay and I overstayed that time. The signs say what the charges will be for overstaying and now they are charging me the advertised amount. I think it's expensive and I'd rather not pay but that doesn't change the fact that I stayed longer than I should have and the consequences of that were advertised in the car park.

What is my defence here?

Trebor16

elliep wrote: »

Sorry to be re-visiting this but I just received the 2nd letter and I'm a bit worried.

The thing that I don't understand is why what they are doing is wrong?
They have signs up in the car park in question, I didn't notice them but they are there. So, they put up signs detailing how long I was allowed to stay and I overstayed that time. The signs say what the charges will be for overstaying and now they are charging me the advertised amount. I think it's expensive and I'd rather not pay but that doesn't change the fact that I stayed longer than I should have and the consequences of that were advertised in the car park.

What is my defence here?

Your defence is they have no legal right to fine you or make you pay a financial penalty. They can only claim for losses they have incurred, which as the car park was free is nothing. If they say you have to make a payment after you have stayed longer than the permitted two hours (or whatever it was) then all they can really claim for is the cost of 25 minutes of parking.

If they have no means at the site for payment to be made then they are in difficulty.

esmerobbo

elliep wrote: »

What is my defence here?

Your defence is basically under civil law a wronged person should be put back into the position they were, or would have been in before the wrong doing!
So they offer free car parking which costs nothing, so if you stay and stop someone else parking there they have lost nothing, so they are due nothing!
If it was a P&D car park you would owe them the fee you avoided and a reasonable fee for collecting it.
What you don't owe them is silly amounts they pull out of the air!
Basically they are imitating legitamate parking regulations without the law or statute to back it up.

I See Trebor16 got in first!;)

Stephen_Leak

Only councils, the police, train operators and Transport for London can impose legally enforceable fines or penalties. A private parking company (PPC) or an individual can't. Even PPCs call their tickets “Parking Charge Notices”, not “Penalty Charge Notices”. In law, they’re called “speculative invoices”.

Any warning signs are usually so badly positioned and worded, that they won’t have created a fair and legally binding deemed contract between the car park owner and a driver entering the car park in the first place. See The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997 and Excel Parking Services vs. Cutts, Stockport, 2011. This case actually involved The Peel Centre.

All the car park owner (CPO) can claim from a driver in damages for any breach of contract is what they’ve lost as a result.

We don’t condone not paying or overstaying in a pay car park. If the driver does owe the CPO anything, then they ought to write to them, offering this in “full and final settlement”. If this is a free car park or they paid, then this is £0.00.

Demanding more has been judged to be unreasonable and therefore an unfair contract penalty under the terms of The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997, which is not legally enforceable. See Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd. vs. New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd., House of Lords, 1914 and countless cases since.

There are also now two recent court cases, VCS Parking Control vs. Ronald Ibbotson, S!!!!horpe, 2012 and VCS Parking Control vs. HM Revenue & Customs, Upper Tax Tribunal, 2012. In both cases, the judges found that only the car park owner can take drivers to court. The Upper Tax Tribunal is a court of record, equivalent to the High Court, and therefore its judgement sets a legal precedent.

elliep_2

Thank you, I feel a lot better about this again now.

Stephen_Leak

When the 3rd letter arrives, come back ... and re-read the above.

elliep_2

Will do! When the 2nd one came I believed that I didn't have to pay but couldn't quite understand why. I understand better now and will remain strong.

rwehuman

Thanks so much for this great advice on here. Just got a £90 ticket from private car park (UKPC) in a small retail park in Wrexham - which is free parking. I made a purchase in one of the shops on the retail park then popped across the road to some other shops to complete my shopping and when I returned £90!! parking charge for 'leaving the site' (£50 if pay in 28 days). Notices say parking charges 'may' apply if you leave the site. I was so depressed and sickened as such a ridiculous charge - just for going to the shops across the road after using the shop on the retail park. After finding this thread and armed with this information I'm going to stand firm and ignore all letters. Thanks for the great information and support - you are doing a fantastic job. I'm in this with you Ellie P!

Coupon-mad

rwehuman wrote: »

Thanks so much for this great advice on here. Just got a £90 ticket from private car park (UKPC) in a small retail park in Wrexham - which is free parking. I made a purchase in one of the shops on the retail park then popped across the road to some other shops to complete my shopping and when I returned £90!! parking charge for 'leaving the site' (£50 if pay in 28 days). Notices say parking charges 'may' apply if you leave the site. I was so depressed and sickened as such a ridiculous charge - just for going to the shops across the road after using the shop on the retail park. After finding this thread and armed with this information I'm going to stand firm and ignore all letters. Thanks for the great information and support - you are doing a fantastic job. I'm in this with you Ellie P!

Good stuff! But it's not just this little tiny thread on here!

I hope you clicked back to the main parking forum to see the more recent threads and info? Read the CURRENT information not just a discussion you stumbled upon, presumably by Googling.

It's easy to find your way around a forum and the current thread list of thousands of similar queries is only ever one click away. You may have no idea how many current threads are about these scumbag private parking companies!

See my signature for where to click (works with any forum, always look for the breadcrumb trail, usually tiny blue writing at the top of a forum page). Click on the right hand end of the run of >links and hey presto you see the forum the ancient thread comes from.

Then you can read the permanent info 'sticky' thread, currently third from the top 'PPC letters & threats' - get a preview of the letters to ignore - and watch the Watchdog clip on there as well.

You'll be fine and can just play snap with each expected letter.

Kaz110_2

Hi Ellie,
Just to let you know, yet again, I'm a few days behind you. Received my 2nd letter over the weekend and will be ignoring it after reading this thread again. We are in this together!

Kaz