Agent Served S21 At Start of Tenancy

cwcw

I was just after some advice about this as I am new to renting so not really sure if I have anything to worry about or not.

Basically, the moment we handed over our signed Tenancy Agreement and got the keys, the agent then handed us a Section 21 to sign. They explained not to worry and it was just a standard procedure in case the landlord wants the property back in 6 months, and as it's an investor who has rented it out for years it was very unlikely. Also, we only intend on a short term stay - we sold our property, our purchase fell through, so we needed somewhere quickly in the short term until something suitable comes up to buy. We signed the notice (not sure there was any choice anyway?) and moved in.

After reading more about this practice, on here and other websites, I'm not too comfortable about it. We can basically be evicted at the last day of the tenancy without any further notice?

Also, would the S21 be void anyway, since it was issued before the deposit was protected? They got us to sign an agreement that they were protecting the deposit, at the same time as S21, but since the payment method was cheque in the post, there is no way possible the deposit could have been protected on the same day the S21 is issued. Would this count against them if they did try to evict?

The agent was very nice and helpful, until after we signed the tenancy, and since then we've had numerous queries that have just been left unanswered. Thankfully the property itself is fine so we've not had anything big to need them for. I'm also still hopeful we will find somewhere to buy before the 6 months is up, we're only a few weeks in, but my preference would be to move on to a periodic tenancy at the end, but with the S21 I understand that would mean being evicted without notice potentially? :eek:

We're a professional couple who will pay the rent on time and have so far not damaged anything and got the house into a better condition than it was (e.g. the professional clean beforehand was somewhat questionable). I don't think a landlord would want to evict us, but I'm not sure how much they would know about it as the agent seems to be fully managing it and they would be more interested in getting the new tenancy fees? The agent also led us to believe it had been let to the same guy for years before we were in, but getting post to 3 different surnames within the first week kind of made me wonder about that too...

tbs624

LLs/LAs who issue a s21 the same day a tenancy is signed up for/keys handed over are fools. They need to be able to show that service of the s21 was not done prior to the start of the tenancy and, as you mention, if you pay a tenancy deposit and the tenancy falls under the tenancy deposit regs then any s21 served prior to the scheme registration of the deposit ( and the provision of the scheme's prescribed information to the T) will be rendered invalid.

Don't flag that one up to the LA/LL. Let them discover for themselves that they will be unable to rely on the original s21 as this will give you extra negotiating time at the end of your FT, should you need it.

When it gets near the end of your FT discuss staying at the property direct with the LL - LLs also get slapped for renewals fees etc if a new FT is signed up for. You can get the LLs contact info via the Land registry for a a few quid or if you ask the LA in writing, they have 21 days from recipt of your formal request to provide you with the information.

If the LA is failing to deal with queries, ensure that you raise maint/repairs issues promptly, and in writing, with copies kept by you.

suited-aces

No, but they can start court proceedings from the last day of your tenancy, but those take time and you won't just be turfed out, that would be grossly illegal.

tbs624

suited-aces wrote: »

No, but they can start court proceedings from the last day of your tenancy, but those take time and you won't just be turfed out, that would be grossly illegal.

Not if the s21 cannot be relied on, which it can't be if served prior to
(a) deposit registration, and
(b) provision of the scheme's prescribed information.

If the LL wanted this T out they would need to reserve a valid s21 and the LA/LL may not realise this until the end of the FT is upon them

suited-aces

Apologies, I was posting on the presumption of a correctly sorted deposit protection etc.

BitterAndTwisted

cwcw wrote: »

After reading more about this practice, on here and other websites, I'm not too comfortable about it. We can basically be evicted at the last day of the tenancy without any further notice?

No! Even if the S21 Notice had been correctly served after your deposit was protected, the landlord would have to apply to the court to have the S21 enforced. That's why it's called a "Notice" not an eviction.

I'm also still hopeful we will find somewhere to buy before the 6 months is up, we're only a few weeks in, but my preference would be to move on to a periodic tenancy at the end, but with the S21 I understand that would mean being evicted without notice potentially? :eek:

Your landlord, or the agent on their behalf, could decide to apply to the court to enforce that S21 but they are unlikely to have a court date allocated without your knowledge. As far as they are concerned, this S21 is a "maybe" and not a certainty.

Few sensible landlords would seek to evict tenants who have looked after the property properly and who have always paid the rent in full and on time. Getting rid of existing tenants costs money, finding new tenants attracts yet another tenant-finding-fee from the agent, and if they do seek to evict they could risk having a void-period between tenants with no rent coming in.

What this S21 Notice actually proves is that the agents think they're being clever when they are actually very far from it indeed. As has been asserted on this forum many times is that no experience, qualifications or membership of a professional organisation is required in order to trade as a letting-agent. The way some of them appear to operate is indicative of this.

G_M

This post explains what happens at the end of your Fixed Term, what security you have, and how a S21 Notice should be served.

It also explains rour options as well as your rights.

rpc

tbs624 wrote: »

Not if the s21 cannot be relied on, which it can't be if served prior to
(a) deposit registration, and
(b) provision of the scheme's prescribed information.

If the LL wanted this T out they would need to reserve a valid s21 and the LA/LL may not realise this until the end of the FT is upon them

They can start court proceedings whether the S21 is valid or not - but the LL will get a bit of a shock when it ends up in front of a judge if the T is savvy!

DVardysShadow

rpc wrote: »

They can start court proceedings whether the S21 is valid or not - but the LL will get a bit of a shock when it ends up in front of a judge if the T is savvy!

And a savvy tenant would keep very quiet about this, not complaining about the S21, but just filing it away safely together with the evidence it was served too early

cwcw

... and a savvy tenant I intend to be.

franklee

Yes keeping quiet works for the current S21 as it's void. However if you sign up to a new fixed term after this one chances are the agent will serve a new S21 and that one may well be valid. So something to watch out for next round. Or ask for a periodic tenancy instead and they may not serve a new S21.

These precautionary - don't really mean it but we'll make our minds up later - "Sword of Damocles" section 21 notices are a pain and there seem to be quite a few going on here ATM.