Redundancy

Snowingagain

If you are not happy with the redundancy pool ie if you think someone else should be in the pool but isn't and you challenge this - what happens if your employers just keeping sticking to their guns when you think it is wrong. Can you take it further?

getmore4less

thats what the consultancy is for, to discuss the reasons.

if they won' discuss then you can raise the issue as consultation needs to be meaningfull so they should back up their position.

Remember they can just skew the selection criteria to get the result they want.

Start with the consultation and then consider a grievence if you canot resolve the issue. Ifthat gets exahausted and you end up redundant you have the papertrial and processs failures to take to a ET.

The more evidence the better.

Ok having said that how close to your job is this other persons, grade, work, hours, location etc. How many in the current pool(get them all on the case)?

Snowingagain

Hi there's seven of us in the pool with similar jobs. I haven't got an issue that I'm in there but I think there should be more who do similar jobs in there as well. We have had several consultation meetings and we have voiced our opinion but I don't think their reasons for excluding other workers is good enough but this seems to be their final response. I don't think they had any intention of changing the pool so I wondered if I could do more about it because what they are saying doesn't make sense.

princessdon

Can you tell us what they are saying as to why they are not included then maybe we can help?

Snowingagain

They are saying other people's jobs (who aren't in the pool) don't do similar work but they do. It's become a bit of a stalemate. I'm concerned that they are protecting people who they don't want to lose.

princessdon

Do they have the same job title, are they the same grade, do they have same terms and conditions?

If they have a different job title (eg admin officer as opposed to Admininstrator) but have very similar job descritpions and same grade then I'd certainly raise this at consultation.

But if their pay is different or they are on a different grade, or do part of a role that those not in the pool do then it could be why they have chosen not to place in the pool.

caeler

The key word here is 'interchangable'. The roles need to be interchangable.

But in answer to your question, if you are still not satisfied with the pool, if you are selected and given notice, you must appeal the decision, if your appeal is not upheld then you have the option to take it to an employment tribunal.

Perhaps if you are able to make your employer see what you see, ie more people should be included in the pool you might be able to avoid all of the above.

Check out this guide, I quite like some of it's suggestions on considering pools and determining if roles are interchangable, it might help you articulate your concerns to your employer. http://www.gla.ac.uk/services/humanresources/policies/p-z/redundancymgt/mgrguide-pools/

Snowingagain

Thank you for your replies everyone. It is interesting that it states the union should be involved before the pool has been finalised as this has not been done.

caeler

Apologies - if your were referring to my link this information broadly explains the situation but clearly is specific to that education authority. Unions would typically only be involved if there was a recognition agreement and that then depends on the agreement in place.

getmore4less

Be very carefull of interpreting a policy of a university as law.
(I have not read their guide)

Consultation requires reps/union if the numbers are big enough.

Are your numbers big enough?

Pools are a consultation issue unless there is prior agreements in place.

since there has been some negotiation,, what are the differences they are using to say that the jobs are not the same.


Another angle might be to go back to the contracts, many places have contracts that have wide scopes,

Some of the places I have worked the contracts are so wide in scope that all jobs have been pooled for any redundancies.

Snowingagain

It's only a small pool. One of the reasons they gave that another colleague wasn't in the pool is that their primary role doesn't come under the same type of job as the rest. It doesn't make sense though because their job role is split 50/50 between two different roles so there is no 'primary role'. One half of their role is the same as some of the others in the pool.