Renting nightmare

Sun4

Hello everyone,

I hope someone can help me - and apologies for the length of this post. My son moved into a flat with two of his friends over a year ago on a shorthold 6 months tenancy. I signed the guarantor form but asked to be responsible only for my son. After 6 months the boys re-newed the tenancy and stayed for another six months. At the renewal date I was not asked to sign a new guarantor form. The boys have now moved out and I have just been sent a huge bill from a debt collecting agency. Am I liable? My son does not owe any rent (we have his bank statements to prove it). The deposit has not been returned (£500). The letting agency is claiming that the boys did not give sufficient notice when quitting the flat after the second tenancy - my son phoned two weeks before the contract ended to let them know they were leaving - and I am being asked to pay rent for the entire flat for two months, damages (probably the new boiler cost!!) and legal fees. The total amount is almost £6000. I don't have the money. Can anyone advise me? Thanks in advance.

FireWyrm

1) why would you have to pay for a new boiler? Unless the boys actually damaged it? Where is the proof of it?

2) what paperwork do you have specifying that you were only guaranteeing your son?

3) personally, I'd send the letting agent a letter stating no responsibility, for the reasons you listed and demand your sons portion of the deposit.

Finally, who are the other boys? Do you know or can you contact their parents? At the very best, I would only concede to one third of the cost, not the whole lot. They can go swivel since it's up to the LL to prove a financial loss, not you to prove otherwise. I'd start a dispute myself.

G_M

Sun4 wrote: »

Hello everyone,

.. My son moved into a flat with two of his friends over a year ago on a shorthold 6 months tenancy. I signed the guarantor form but asked to be responsible only for my son.
'asking' is not enough - what does it say in the guarantee agreement you signed? Read it!

After 6 months the boys re-newed the tenancy and stayed for another six months. At the renewal date I was not asked to sign a new guarantor form.
Normally, the guarantee obligations continue but it depends what the guarantee agreement says - again: Read it!

The boys have now moved out and I have just been sent a huge bill from a debt collecting agency. Am I liable?
1) depends on the questions above and
2) depends if the boys caused damage/left debts for which they are liable and
3) depends if the guarantee agreement itself is legally sound (see below)

My son does not owe any rent (we have his bank statements to prove it).
so far so good
The deposit has not been returned (£500).
Is this Eng/Wales?
Is it registered in a deposit scheme?
The letting agency is claiming that the boys did not give sufficient notice when quitting the flat after the second tenancy - my son phoned two weeks before the contract ended to let them know they were leaving - and I am being asked to pay rent for the entire flat for two months,
When you say "before the contract ended" what do you mean? Before they moved out (not the same) or was this the end of the 2nd 6 month Fixed Term? Or had the 2nd 6 month month Fixed Term already ended...?
If they moved out at the end of the 2nd 6 month Fixed Term, NO notice needed.
If the Fixed Term had ended then Notice needed to be a full rental period which is at least a month and could be nearly 2 months Read this post to understand notice required. Notice (if required) should always be in writing.

damages (probably the new boiler cost!!)
are the damages listed and costed?
What are they exactly?
Why need a new boiler? Did the tenants damage it? If yes, they are liable. If it simply stopped working, they are NOT liable.
If not clear - find out!
and legal fees.
What efforts if any were made by the LL/agent to request the money form the tenants/yourself (letters?) BEFORE it was passed to debt agency?
The total amount is almost £6000. I don't have the money. Can anyone advise me? Thanks in advance.

1) Find out about the deposit registration -
2) why did the tenants not request their deposit when they moved out and /or apply to the scheme for dispute arbitration. Ask them!
3) Write to the LL (copy the agent) demanding a breakdown of the damages. 4) READ the guarantee agreement
5) Important: was the guarantee agreement
A) included within the tenancy agreement? or
was it a seperate document? If seperate was it :
i) signed and executed as a Deed?
ii) witnessed by someone objective? when you signed it?
iii) given to you AND did you receive a copy of the Tenancy Agreement to which it referred?

If NO to any of those 3, the guarante may be invalid.

As said above this post explains how much Notice the tenants should have given. If they did not, then they owe rent for the missing notice period.

BitterAndTwisted

Was the tenancy agreement a joint-and-several one, so you were acting as guarantor for the whole property and not just your son's share?

Was the guarantor agreement signed and witnessed as a Deed? This is something which many landlords and letting-agents get wrong, so this could be your Get-Out-Of-Jail Free card. I do hope so.

If the tenants gave notice to end the tenancy at or before the expiry of the fixed-term no formal notice-period is legally required.

Sun4

Thank you so much everyone. In answer to the various questions:

The flat is in England.

My son phoned two weeks before the end of the 2nd 6 month term to advise letting agent that they would be moving out. They moved out on the day the 2nd 6 month term expired.

Re the boiler: the boiler stopped working during the coldest part of the year, quite near to the start of the second 6 month tenancy. Despite phone calls, emails etc to the letting agent no attempt was made to repair the boiler. My son asked a plumber friend to have a look (we have written evidence of this) but he was unable to fix the boiler and said a new one was needed.

As far as I remember, the guarantor agreement was not signed and witnessed as a Deed, nor did I receive a copy of the tenancy agreement.

The boys did request their deposit but didn't receive the money. We were just about to get legal advice on this when we received the letter from the debt collecting agency.

What should I do now?

Once again, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to help me.

Damages are not listed and costed

It_can_get_better

What are the dates on the contract and what is the date he moved out? When were the keys given back?

tbs624

Have you/your son/the other Ts been ignoring requests for payment - a debt does not get sent to a dca without some prior paperwork being sent out. Did the Ts all provide the LL/LA with forwarding addresses?

As B&T has said, Ts may leave at the expiry of their Fixed Term without giving the LL any notice. Clearly it is courteous to let a LL know though and this appears to be what your son has done. Some LLs/LAs seem unaware that notice is not required provided Ts relinquish property on the final date of the FT.

On the boiler, you seemed to immediately equate "damage costs" with the boiler - did your son's "plumber friend" fiddle with it?

As the LL wants you and your son to comply with your obligations s/he also needs to meet his/her own. Check whether the tenancy deposit had been scheme registered and the scheme's prescribed information given to the Ts - go online with property address/tenancy details at DPS, mydeposits and DPS. It's not an option - LLs are required to deal with this by law. LL can be ordered to pay Ts a penalty of between 1 and 3 times the deposit equivalent

Did the other lads' have parent guarantors too? If the lads had a joint and several liability and you simply guarantee all of your son's liabilities under that tenancy agreement then you are agreeing to cover *any* shortfall/damage. LLs/LAs tend to go after whoever they think is most likely to have the necessary funds but as B&T has mentioned, the guarantor agreement has to have been executed as a deed.

Why do you/your son not have a copy of the tenancy agreement and the guarantor agreement?

Have you or your son spoken to/written to the LL/LA since you received the letter, to obtain further clarification?

BitterAndTwisted

Sun4 wrote: »

My son phoned two weeks before the end of the 2nd 6 month term to advise letting agent that they would be moving out. They moved out on the day the 2nd 6 month term expired.

Are you absolutely certain that they moved out on or before the very last day of the fixed-term? Look at the "from" and "to"dates on the AST and have them confirm that they did so. If they moved out and handed the keys back then they are not liable for any rent as not formal notice was legally-required.

Re the boiler: the boiler stopped working during the coldest part of the year, quite near to the start of the second 6 month tenancy. Despite phone calls, emails etc to the letting agent no attempt was made to repair the boiler. My son asked a plumber friend to have a look (we have written evidence of this) but he was unable to fix the boiler and said a new one was needed.

I suspect that your suspicions are correct but the landlord can go whistle.

As far as I remember, the guarantor agreement was not signed and witnessed as a Deed, nor did I receive a copy of the tenancy agreement.

Where is the document you signed? Do you have a copy?

The boys did request their deposit but didn't receive the money. We were just about to get legal advice on this when we received the letter from the debt collecting agency.

Do they know which deposit-protection scheme their deposit was registered with? DPS, TDS and MyDeposits are the three schemes. They should investigate whether it was protected NOW. This could be a possible lever.

What should I do now?

WRITE to the debt-collection agency and send a copy to both the letting-agent and the landlord requesting that they furnish absolute proof that their alleged claim against you is valid and legally-binding. A full costing with estimates of every item they are claiming together with a copy of the signed and witnessed Deed.

I think these shysters may be flying a kite.

Sun4

I signed the guarantor form in the letting agent's office and that was the last I saw of it. My son will have the tenancy agreement - I'm seeing him on Tuesday so will read it thoroughly then. The father of one of the other lads has also been sent the same letter. The letting agent has my address and my son's forwarding address (as well as those of the other two boys) - but this is the first letter I have received - hence the shock. I will check that the deposit is registered. Keys returned day of moving out - same date as fixed term contract ended.

BitterAndTwisted

Well, in which case if the letting-agent and the landlord they represent think they have a convincing case against you they will have to furnish documentary evidence that you are legally responsible for whatever it is that they are claiming.

It doesn't surprise me that they have issued the same documentation to one of the other parents. Scatter-gun tactics.

Get all of the available documentation in front of you and then write your letter. DO NOT communicate with anyone other than in writing from now on.

Please come back to this thread and update it once you have heard back from them. We will try to advise you further should you require any more help.

tbs624

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

It doesn't surprise me that they have issued the same documentation to one of the other parents. Scatter-gun tactics.

Why should it be a matter of surprise anyway? LL can of course pursue any/all of the Ts when there is J&SL . OP would be more p***ed off if s/he was the only guarantor being chased

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Get all of the available documentation in front of you and then write your letter. DO NOT communicate with anyone other than in writing from now on.

If the OP has contact with the other ex Ts/guarantors it would be best if they can present a united front IMO, rather than each of them firing off entirely separate, differently worded letters

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

We will try to advise you further should you require any more help.

My bolding - its not advice, it is suggestions and opinions. Check out the forum rules