Default with "everything everywhere" (orange), removal of....

mccracd

I have a default with orange for £264.

Have been following the learn money.co.uk guide to getting it removed by claiming that I was never issued the correct notification etc.

Orange have come back to me with a letter to say that although they have no records of the default, they have strict procedures in place to ensure that knew all about it (which I didn't until recently)

My question is, Now that they have basically admitted that they can't prove they served me with the correct paperwork, can I request that they remove the default as it is unsubstantiated?

It's due to come off next December (6yr rule) but this would make getting a mortgage much easier for me.

On a similar note, I have another default for £64 coming off next month, should I write and remind the company to be sure to be sure?

fermi

That learnmoney guide is a tad inaccurate and misleading (understatement!).

Plus the parts referring to the Consumer Credit Act and default notices under it do not apply to mobile phone accounts.

You just have to stick to the basic facts.

- You have a default on your file.
- They deny giving you one.
- Therefore they have messed up somewhere, and if the default is wrong it is their responsibility to remove it under the Data Protection Act.
- Demand that they remove it within 28 days, otherwise you will take the matter to the ombudsman and ICO.

MrsTinks

At which point they could in theory send you a letter stating your account has defaulted to the tune of x amount and it'll be back on there...

lilydoodle

Take them to court as the default has caused you actual loss.

Seriously, I've been involved in a case recently where a five figure settlement was agreed for incorrect placement of a default.

fermi

MrsTine wrote: »

At which point they could in theory send you a letter stating your account has defaulted to the tune of x amount and it'll be back on there...

Not really, as if there was at the point of default a need to send a "notification of the intenmtion to file a default", then unless they did so at the time a default dated back then would not be fair.

Conversely, a recent default would likewise be unfair, and it would not fairly represent the account history.

The creditor would be blocked either way.

However, it is entirely possible that a notification of a default was not needed. There are some circumstances when it is not.

See: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3172602

chanz4

normaly when providers send a disconnection notice, its a default notice detailed on it.

fermi

Certainly wasn't on the one I had back in 2006, which would have been contemporaneousness with the OPs. I know as I disputed the default date, and was actually hoping it did give notice on it, and found it didn't. Got it corrected anyway though.

mccracd

Hi guys,, thanks for all the responses!

The letter is quoted below, if you think I have a case to have the default removed tell me and I can respond accordingly:

Dear Mr Xxxxxxx
Thank you for your recent letter regarding your orange account and the information showing on your credit file.

In response to your request for a copy of signed agreement, we must advise that orange do not retains copies of your original signed agreement. A mobile phone agreement is not a regulated under the consumer credit act and as such we are not required to retain a signed copy of your agreement. When you connect to orange you would have been asked to either sign a customer agreement form stating that you have read and agreed to the terms and conditions or , in the case of telesales, you would give verbal agreement to the terms and conditions over the phone and a hard copy would be supplied with the delivery of your phone. These will either be in a separate guide or in the back of your phone user guide.

We also note your request for a copy of the original default notice. We are unable to provide you with this as your orange contract is not a consumer credit agreement, therefore we are not obliged to send you a default notice as stated under the consumer credit act. If you require further informatio regarding this please refer to section 9.2 of the terms and conditions that came with our phone.

When our account falls into arrears, orange pursues the outstanding debt by a series of correspondence - SMS, phone calls, reminders and letters. Letters were sent to your address to make you aware that the debt is outstanding and needs to be cleared; this correspondence also advises that failure to clear the debt on our account will affect your credit rating and this may affect your ability to obtain credit in the future.

If all avenues within the orange collection process are exhausted and orange are still unable to recover the debt from you, the debt is past on to external debt collection agencies who attempt to recover the debt from you on oranges behalf.

This process provides you with several notifications there are outstanding arrears and as such your credit file may be affected, including the recording of a default in the event of invoices remain unpaid on your account. Orange is also bound to record a true reflection of how you have conducted your account with credit reference agencies.

Thank you once again and we hope this information is helpful.

My opinion on this letter is that not only have they admitted they have no record of my account, they also have no way to prove I actually defaulted. So in my mind there is nothing to stop me now from writing back and requesting that the default (and possibly the whole account) is removed as unsubstantiated due to their complete lack of records. All this letter has done is comfirm that they have procedures in place to ensure that that account holder is aware.

fermi

http://www.ico.gov.uk/~/media/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.ashx

39 Records

Any default record should be accurate. We normally expect a lender to keep records that are necessary to show an agreement exists and to support filing a default. We would also expect a lender to be able to produce evidence to justify a default record they had placed on a credit reference file. Not having any supporting records may indicate a breach of the data protection principle requiring personal data to be adequate, relevant and not excessive for the purpose for which it is processed. A record that a notice of an intention to file a default was sent, if not a copy of the notice itself, will help lenders to comply with this requirement.

fermi

mccracd wrote: »

My opinion on this letter is that not only have they admitted they have no record of my account, they also have no way to prove I actually defaulted.

I don't think they've admitted any such thing.

They are just responding to your requests for copies of the credit agreement and default notice.

Where they are correct that neither applies to mobile phone accounts.

If you ask for things that never had to exist in the first place, then you are going to get that sort of reply.

Instead you should just be asking for a copy of their records to support the filing of the default, and that a notice warning you of such was sent or included in the account opening info supplied to you.

mccracd

Thanks for helping me understand what they're saying there!

I'll write to them now basically asking them to substantiate the default within 28 days and if this is not possible then request that they remove the default.

As for the other company that I defaulted with for £64, that's due to come off next month so should I write and remind them or wait and see?

Thanks!