Building Regulation Chimney Breast Removal

geezer46

Firstly what a great forum. I have been lurking here for the last Month or so and I must say that I know a great deal more about the buying and selling process than I did before.

Anyway my problem.

I am in the process of purchasing a property that is currently going through the conveyancing process.
Some time ago previous owners (not current vendors) removed part of a Chimney Breast in the property. The current vendor simply states it was done by a previous owner and that he knows not when. On this basis we do know he has owned the property for 14 years + so clearly it was done pre 1992/3. The survey I commissioned identified the fact this chimney breast had work done on it in the past.

My solicitor chased up the Building Regs forms for the work but the vendor has after some weeks been unable to provide them and simply states that the work was done by a previous owner and that there has been no problems in the time he has owned the property. My solicitor is now simply stating that building regulation approval would have been required for the removal of the chimney breast and it appears that this was not obtained (presumably as not supplied). He therefore cannot guarantee that the work was carried out to a suitable standard. Clearly this is simply his get out of jail free card if anything untoward in the future was to occur.

To be fair to the solicitor I only received his letter this morning and have not as yet had an opportunity to speak to him about this.

I feel that the current vendor should have insisted on the necessary approvals prior to his purchase and that it is now his lookout that he did not.

Would I be justified in requiring the current vendor supply me with an experts report indicating that the work done is to a satisfactory standard?

Am I being picky is asking for this particularly that the work was done many years ago and my surveyor mentions in his report 'that the rear chimney breast has been removed at ground floor level and to the basement. He cannot confirm adequate support has been provided however, the structural alterations would appear to have been carried out some time ago and no signs of inadequacy or problem was noted at the time of his inspection. The works of alteration are typical.'

Whilst I am prepared to consider moving forward as things are my children will be sleeping in rooms under this removed chimney breast and of course peace of mind is a concern.

Also at the back of my mind is the fact I only intend to occupy this property for 10 years or so. If I am asking questions regarding the approvals now any potential purchaser in the future will do so also? If they were absent could I have real problems selling the property on?

Many thanks for any replies.

Doozergirl

To get an expert's report stating that the work is done to a satisfactory standard will involve chipping off the plasterwork to actually see what has been done.

To get someone to state that means that they accept that if something should fail, that you can claim against their professional insurance. You'll be lucky to find someone prepared to do that without taking big chunks out of the wall.

The structural stability of a house has nothing to do with your solicitor at all, so there is no get out jail card needed. You should speak to your surveyor personally and ask if it were him buying the property, what would he do?

wobbley

The first step would be to get in touch with the Building Control Office at your local council and check with them that it would have needed building regs at the time it was done. There is the possibility that your solicitor is just asssuming this and he amy be mistaken.

geezer46

wobbley wrote: »

The first step would be to get in touch with the Building Control Office at your local council and check with them that it would have needed building regs at the time it was done. There is the possibility that your solicitor is just asssuming this and he amy be mistaken.

On this basis does anyone know when Building Regulation Approval started for chimney breast removal?

If in the last 20 to 25 years or so was there any other Local Authority inspection prior to this that may have been recorded that checks for structural safety?

Hawkings_Boots

If you're going to go down the Indemnity Insurance route for he building regs documnets then i wouldn't mention anything about the property as this can put them on notice and invalidate any policy

Doozergirl

There is no point in indemnity insurance as the work is well past it's 'sell by date' as such. Building Regs couldn't go after them if they wanted to because of the time lapse. In this case, Indemnity insurance is a particular waste of money.

geezer46

Doozergirl wrote: »

There is no point in indemnity insurance as the work is well past it's 'sell by date' as such. Building Regs couldn't go after them if they wanted to because of the time lapse. In this case, Indemnity insurance is a particular waste of money.

Thanks for that I understand that completely. Perhaps I am approaching this from the wrong angle.

Maybe the work was carried out in the 60's or 70's or early 80's (Victorian Property) and that as such no approvals would have required? Perhaps the solicitor has got it wrong. I found something this evening on the net that indicates that The Building Regulations were enacted in 11/1983.

As it has clearly stood the test of time maybe I am worrying unnecessarily?

itsakidsworld

Geezer 46,

First of all welcome to this forum which is fantastic as you have seen and offers great advice on all subjects.

Regarding the chimney, from a personal point of view I would not take anybodys word for granted where the removal of a chimney is concerned. You are not being "picky" as you say but cautious and from my experience you are right to be. Why?

Over the years I have seen many properties which have had the chimneys removed and they have not been carried out in a correct manner. It would not matter to me if the work had been carried out by a professional or it was a do-it-yourself job, the basic facts remain the same. You do not state which part of the chimney has been removed, for example, is it from the roof down ( which would be ok as there is no load bearing structure left above) or is it from the floor up( which leaves the original chimney sat on the roof). This type of removal is of more concern.

It could be possible to check the work by lifting floorboards or looking in a loft( without seeing the actual property it is hard comment ).

In either case, it could be possible to obtain quotations to have the remainder of the chimney removed, which would solve all problems and instead of paying a large fee for a structural engineer, you would be improving the house knowing that it was correct? Another minor point which people overlook is that if a chimney has only been partly removed, it is important that it has air vents fitted to stop it from sweating. Vents have to be fitted at the top of the structure and the bottom to allow maximun airflow.

Whatever you choose, remember that at the moment it is the problem of the current owners and if they wish to sell then it is upto them to provide all necessary documents for any structural work, regardless of who did it. Stay positive and do not let the romance of a new house cloud your judgment on something you obviously have issues with( and quite rightly so).

The very best of luck.

silvercar

chimney breasts either need to be totally removed or supported. A gallows bracket is often used to support. Speak to your surveyor who should be able to advise whether it would meet current standards and whether he considers it safe.

Loobysaver

silvercar wrote: »

chimney breasts either need to be totally removed or supported. A gallows bracket is often used to support. Speak to your surveyor who should be able to advise whether it would meet current standards and whether he considers it safe.

Can you tell me what a gallows bracket is/what it looks like? As I had the chimney breast in my dining room removed when the builders were building my extension. Obviously I had planning permission for the extension but I'm not sure whether I did for the chimney.

I know there definitely wasn't a support/lintel put in but I saw them putting some metal small thingys in!(v technical I know!!)

mountainofdebt

My husband's company very often is requsted to carry out a structural survey of properties where a chimney breast has been removed.

This is carried out by a structural engineer so is more likely to know the full effects of the removal.