Landlords Obligations

rpc

gettingthere1975 wrote: »

An interesting little update.

The LL called tonight, it turns out he has added a few extras to the boiler to "help" it function and last longer, he is coming to remove them tomorrow before the Gas Safe engineer gets here tomorrow afternoon, no wonder that didnt get put in writing!

God only knows how it passed the Gas Safe in 2011 as he hasent ben near the house since move in date except a pop in on Saturday!

I'd be tempted to see if the gas fitter could come around earlier, before the landlord removes his bodges... (or be out, tending to some unexpected and urgent situation, so the landlord cannot get in) It rather sounds as if the 'extras' are not safe and he wants them away before the check is done. He could then try to replace them after.

dt3887

Ghostrider wrote: »

Wrong, that is not true at all!!

I wish people would check the facts before dishing out such advice.

rather than just stating Wrong, that is not true at all!! how about offering some helpfull advice, or actually stating HOW the poster is wrong and what you feel is correct

Ghostrider

rpc wrote: »

Failing to have a gas safety certificate is not breaking the law? The post was only part wrong (and not too far wrong).

If the LL wants to do a check to make sure it isn't, for example, boiler settings then that is fine. If he removes the case (which itself could be gas 'work') then I'd be worrying. The OP does not make it sound as though he wants to check it first.

As long as it's not gas side or working on the flues then you don't need to be gas safe registered.

If there was a water pipe leaking, pressure was a 0bar resulting in no hot water to the system then that could quite legally be fixed by somebody who is not gas safe registered as long as no work to the gas side or flues was required (which it probably wouldn't be in that case)

If the LL wanted to repair such a matter, then he is well within his rights to do so without the tenant banging on at him about things they don't know about.

Of course, it might require gas work, and so in that case it should be carried out be a gas registered engineer. But it's up to the LL to make that call.

The Tenant should ask the landlord exactly what it is he is planning to do to the boiler. If the LL is cagey you still can't prevent him from doing what he likes to the boiler i'm afraid, it's his boiler at the end of the day, but the laws are there to retrospectively protect the Tenant (and so are the terms of the rental agreement if he fails to honour his obligations as LL you can leave the property without notice normally). And so if the Tenant is uncomfortable that they don't undertand what work the LL has carried out they should have an inspection done themselves, if it turns out the LL genuinely didn't touch the gas side and happended to fix a leaky water feed then the Tenant will have to cough up, if not and the LL has attempted a repair to the gas side then the LL should be forced to pay for a full repair by a qualified engineer.

Thats the way it works.

rpc

Ghostrider wrote: »

As long as it's not gas side or working on the flues then you don't need to be gas safe registered

I agree. Not hard to agree when you are simply stating the law.

If the LL wanted to repair such a matter, then he is well within his rights to do so without the tenant banging on at him about things they don't know about.

I more or less agree.

Of course, it might require gas work, and so in that case it should be carried out be a gas registered engineer. But it's up to the LL to make that call.

If all landlords knew exactly what they are doing and adhered strictly to the law at all times, then I would agree. As we know this is not universally the case and the OP will have to live with the consequences if a unregistered person does gas work in the OP's home.

The Tenant should ask the landlord exactly what it is he is planning to do to the boiler. If the LL is cagey you still can't prevent him from doing what he likes to the boiler i'm afraid,

You could throw the LL out :-). Quiet enjoyment and all that.

In the OP's place, I would do as you suggest above and let the safety check go ahead. I would then deny LL any access to the boiler once it is working properly (as it should be after the safety check).

The LL may be comptent to do gas work, but it is still illegal for him to do so. The T should take reasonable steps to ensure that he is not doing gas work (if it is a plumbing problem, fine but if it a gas problem then T should be laying down the law). Most boiler problems are plumbing, so LL is probably OK but some of the stuff OP has said makes it all sound a little dodgy ('extras', tin foil on fuses, etc).

the laws are there to retrospectively protect the Tenant

Retrospective protection is not much use when you are lying dead in your bed from CO poisoning.

tbs624

Ghostrider - note that the OP says that the Gas Safety Certificate expired in April.

Not having the check done is an offence and not providing the T with a copy of a gas safety cert is an offence

Note too that the HSE says specifically:

Do I have to use a Gas Safe registered engineer to complete gas work?

Yes. The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations state that landlords must only use a Gas Safe registered engineer for maintenance and safety checks on gas equipment they own and provide for tenants use in domestic premises. HSE advises that you check that the Gas Safe registered engineer is competent to work in that specific area of gas. This is clearly marked on the back of the engineer's Gas Safe Register registration card .

tbs624

OP - put in a call to the local Council - either to the Env Health Officer or to the Private Sector Tenancy Relations Officer. They can help you with this one.

If you are likely to be without heating/hot water for more than a couple of day ask the LL (in writing, copy kept) to provide temporary water/space heaters - these can be hired by the day/week and he can set down the cost on his tax return.

Ghostrider

tbs624 wrote: »

Ghostrider - note that the OP says that the Gas Safety Certificate expired in April.

Not having the check done is an offence and not providing the T with a copy of a gas safety cert is an offence

Note too that the HSE says specifically:

Do I have to use a Gas Safe registered engineer to complete gas work?

Yes. The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations state that landlords must only use a Gas Safe registered engineer for maintenance and safety checks on gas equipment they own and provide for tenants use in domestic premises. HSE advises that you check that the Gas Safe registered engineer is competent to work in that specific area of gas. This is clearly marked on the back of the engineer's Gas Safe Register registration card .

Noted, thats only applicable to gas work and issuance of a gas safety certificate.

I'm talking about repairs to a boiler that is faulty the nature of which has not been indentified and could easily be unrelated to the gas system.

melancholly

Ghostrider wrote: »

I wouldn't go that far - or do you know the LL personally???

Actually, I think every home, rented or owned, should have a CO detector. It's just plain sensible advice across the board (unless there is no gas, obviously!).

Ghostrider

melancholly wrote: »

Actually, I think every home, rented or owned, should have a CO detector. It's just plain sensible advice across the board (unless there is no gas, obviously!).

I totally agree, but i'm not sure how that ties in with my quote...

tbs624

Any LL who lets GSCs expire is clearly a plonker. The fact that the OP's LL wants to get in there to remove the results of his boiler dabblings suggests that he is a plonker or more than one count.

He owes his T a duty of care.

Ghostrider's low level of knowledge on LL& T related issues is demonstrated by his assertion above that

Ghostrider wrote: »

... the laws are there to retrospectively protect the Tenant (and so are the terms of the rental agreement if he fails to honour his obligations as LL you can leave the property without notice normally).

my bolding. This is not the case.

As Ghostrider says in on e of his other posts:

Ghostrider wrote: »

Wrong, that is not true at all!!

I wish people would check the facts before dishing out such advice.

Ghostrider wrote: »

..And so if the Tenant is uncomfortable that they don't undertand what work the LL has carried out they should have an inspection done themselves, if it turns out the LL genuinely didn't touch the gas side and happended to fix a leaky water feed then the Tenant will have to cough up, if not and the LL has attempted a repair to the gas side then the LL should be forced to pay for a full repair by a qualified engineer.

Thats the way it works.

Nope - the T should call in the EHO and/or HSE.

Plenty of prosectution reports on the HSE website, of risk taking LLs and other dodgy boiler dddlers