Vanquis ROP

d0nnyoz

No, unfortunately not RIP!

I have been trying to do some research on the Vanquis Repayment Option Plan, and to try and understand if this is a form of PPI and what I can do about it.
I am doing this work on behalf of my elderly father so I'm hoping I can get some clear-cut answers that I have been unable to ascertain through my research.

Firstly, my father has a Vanquis credit card - I know, I know! I don't know why he has one but he does so its about working out the best method for him to clear the card and then cancel it. It only has £500 limit on it so it shouldn't be too much trouble.

I have written to Vanquis (all on behalf of my father) and asked them to remove this ROP and also ask them about how I complain about how the policy was introduced.
The ROP has now been successfully removed which is saving my father around £7 or £8 per month now.

During my research into this product I have had various results in terms of what this product is. A lot of people say its not insurance as it only freezes the debt. As it is not insurance it is controlled by the OFT rather than the FSA, so any complaint about it must be directed at the OFT and this is not the same as a complaint against a mis-sold PPI.
I also read somewhere that the Ombudsman has now recognised this product as a form of PPI and will accept complaints?

So, a lot of info on this but nothing concrete.
Vanquis themselves have responded by stating the above - this is not PPI and cannot be complained about. But I also read that I can complain about how it was sold in the first instance. My father is 76 and has not had the card that long (maybe 2 year max) so I'm wondering if, because of his age, he might have been mis-sold this product?? I mean, can a pensioner really be covered by such a product? I suppose they can if it simply freezes debt rather than pay out some insurance premium based on personal circumstances.

Vanquis have also stated, rather defensively IMO, that this was properly sold as they have evidence of the initial phone call and can prove that my father was given the option of cancelling. I'm wondering how much of that is scaremongering?

So, the upshot is that I am looking for some decisive information on this misleading product (IMO). Does anyone know if this is claimable (sp?) and what action I might be able to take?
Or is it just a case of be lucky that it is now cancelled and concentrate on reducing the debt?

Cheers!

callum9999

d0nnyoz wrote: »

No, unfortunately not RIP!

I have been trying to do some research on the Vanquis Repayment Option Plan, and to try and understand if this is a form of PPI and what I can do about it.
I am doing this work on behalf of my elderly father so I'm hoping I can get some clear-cut answers that I have been unable to ascertain through my research.

Firstly, my father has a Vanquis credit card - I know, I know! I don't know why he has one but he does so its about working out the best method for him to clear the card and then cancel it. It only has £500 limit on it so it shouldn't be too much trouble.

I have written to Vanquis (all on behalf of my father) and asked them to remove this ROP and also ask them about how I complain about how the policy was introduced.
The ROP has now been successfully removed which is saving my father around £7 or £8 per month now.

During my research into this product I have had various results in terms of what this product is. A lot of people say its not insurance as it only freezes the debt. As it is not insurance it is controlled by the OFT rather than the FSA, so any complaint about it must be directed at the OFT and this is not the same as a complaint against a mis-sold PPI.
I also read somewhere that the Ombudsman has now recognised this product as a form of PPI and will accept complaints?

So, a lot of info on this but nothing concrete.
Vanquis themselves have responded by stating the above - this is not PPI and cannot be complained about. But I also read that I can complain about how it was sold in the first instance. My father is 76 and has not had the card that long (maybe 2 year max) so I'm wondering if, because of his age, he might have been mis-sold this product?? I mean, can a pensioner really be covered by such a product? I suppose they can if it simply freezes debt rather than pay out some insurance premium based on personal circumstances.

Vanquis have also stated, rather defensively IMO, that this was properly sold as they have evidence of the initial phone call and can prove that my father was given the option of cancelling. I'm wondering how much of that is scaremongering?

So, the upshot is that I am looking for some decisive information on this misleading product (IMO). Does anyone know if this is claimable (sp?) and what action I might be able to take?
Or is it just a case of be lucky that it is now cancelled and concentrate on reducing the debt?

Cheers!

I'm not surprised they are "rather defensive" if you are implying you want to take legal/official action against them for a product, they feel, has no reason to be complained about! Particularly with the ridiculous PPI thing where everyone has been reclaiming it - regardless of it being mis-sold or not.

Someone being 76 isn't a reason for it being mis-sold. Is he easily confused by these kinda things? If you can get a copy of the call and show that the operator mislead him or he didn't understand what he was agreeing to then you'll have a legitimate complaint. If you think that's likely then contact them and request a copy of the call (I tried that with someone else before and they charged £10 for it - but you get that refunded if you "win", presumably Vanquis is the same). Him (or you) just no longer wanting it isn't a valid reason to complain about it though - and you should just move on and sort out the rest of the debt.

d0nnyoz

callum9999 wrote: »

I'm not surprised they are "rather defensive" if you are implying you want to take legal/official action against them for a product, they feel, has no reason to be complained about! Particularly with the ridiculous PPI thing where everyone has been reclaiming it - regardless of it being mis-sold or not.

I have successfully taken action against Barclays for a mis-sold PPI (actually, there were 3 PPI's) for a total of nearly £5k and there were more I looked at and questioned but decided not to take action. So I'm not simply jumping on the bandwagon with PPI's - I believe in fairness and if the policies these huge institutions thrust upon on us in which they knowingly make huge profits on without justifying their existence is unfair, IMO.
And I feel exactly the same about the Vanquis ROP plan. So please be a bit more respectful when offering a response to someone you don't even know. I have explained WHY I want to question the ROP from Vanquis but I haven't taken any action yet.
I would have thought that you would understand that any institution who's commercial existence is about making money, and lots of it, would obviously think their policies are fair - I would do the same if it was my company and I wanted to make lots of money (I do actually run my own business but I care for my clients more than simply thinking how much money can I get out of them).

callum9999 wrote: »

Someone being 76 isn't a reason for it being mis-sold. Is he easily confused by these kinda things? If you can get a copy of the call and show that the operator mislead him or he didn't understand what he was agreeing to then you'll have a legitimate complaint. If you think that's likely then contact them and request a copy of the call (I tried that with someone else before and they charged £10 for it - but you get that refunded if you "win", presumably Vanquis is the same). Him (or you) just no longer wanting it isn't a valid reason to complain about it though - and you should just move on and sort out the rest of the debt.

My point about being 76, which you seemed to have completely missed, is that older people tend to be more susceptible to accepting products/costs/etc as they don't tend to understand them fully, and that is my point.
If you have ever watched a TV programme like say Rogue Traders, all of the people they setup within houses are older people. Why do you think that is?

I would say in general that Vanquis, although providing a service in a particular market, are not following the best etiquette when it comes to selling those services and will probably pull the wool over anyone's eyes in order to get a sale (in terms of getting an agreement signed) and getting their clients to sign up for products they probably don't need but earn them a lot of money, for nothing.

My father is not up to speed with all that's going on with the financial markets right now (and I bet he's not alone!) so I said I would help him (he lives 450 miles away). It doesn't mean I'm just going to claim against everything because that's what everyone is doing. I think I am sensible enough to assess what he has and whether I think he has been treated unfairly. That's all.

After all of that, I still haven't got an answer, which I though I would get on this forum. I've had some pretty good advice previously on this forum but it seems a shame its been taken over by some individuals who seem to want to only chastise people for wanting to have a go at large financial institutions who have been making money hand over fist and then cry foul when they get into trouble.

callum9999

d0nnyoz wrote: »

I have successfully taken action against Barclays for a mis-sold PPI (actually, there were 3 PPI's) for a total of nearly £5k and there were more I looked at and questioned but decided not to take action. So I'm not simply jumping on the bandwagon with PPI's - I believe in fairness and if the policies these huge institutions thrust upon on us in which they knowingly make huge profits on without justifying their existence is unfair, IMO.
And I feel exactly the same about the Vanquis ROP plan. So please be a bit more respectful when offering a response to someone you don't even know. I have explained WHY I want to question the ROP from Vanquis but I haven't taken any action yet.
I would have thought that you would understand that any institution who's commercial existence is about making money, and lots of it, would obviously think their policies are fair - I would do the same if it was my company and I wanted to make lots of money (I do actually run my own business but I care for my clients more than simply thinking how much money can I get out of them).


My point about being 76, which you seemed to have completely missed, is that older people tend to be more susceptible to accepting products/costs/etc as they don't tend to understand them fully, and that is my point.
If you have ever watched a TV programme like say Rogue Traders, all of the people they setup within houses are older people. Why do you think that is?

I would say in general that Vanquis, although providing a service in a particular market, are not following the best etiquette when it comes to selling those services and will probably pull the wool over anyone's eyes in order to get a sale (in terms of getting an agreement signed) and getting their clients to sign up for products they probably don't need but earn them a lot of money, for nothing.

My father is not up to speed with all that's going on with the financial markets right now (and I bet he's not alone!) so I said I would help him (he lives 450 miles away). It doesn't mean I'm just going to claim against everything because that's what everyone is doing. I think I am sensible enough to assess what he has and whether I think he has been treated unfairly. That's all.

After all of that, I still haven't got an answer, which I though I would get on this forum. I've had some pretty good advice previously on this forum but it seems a shame its been taken over by some individuals who seem to want to only chastise people for wanting to have a go at large financial institutions who have been making money hand over fist and then cry foul when they get into trouble.

Why do people always think if they are told something they don't want to hear its "disrespectful" or "rude".... Not a single thing I said in that quote is remotely disrespectful.

How was that point remotely missed? I clearly said that if you feel he was misled on the phone then call them up and get a copy of the phone call.

I have given you a perfectly good answer - you are just choosing to throw a hissy-fit because it's not convenient to what you want to hear... Try to get evidence of mis-selling and then make a claim. If there is no evidence then move on. What exactly is wrong with that? Your claim that old people should be exempt from contracts because "they don't always fully understand them" is absolutely ridiculous. If that were to be the case then companies would have to refuse to give them any contracts at all.

osborn99

Change your attitude and people might reply

d0nnyoz

callum9999 wrote: »

How was that point remotely missed? I clearly said that if you feel he was misled on the phone then call them up and get a copy of the phone call.

What you clearly implied was my father's old age had nothing to do with be mis-sold, and in general terms I have to disagree. Surely we all know that older people are more susceptible to being mis-sold. I'm not excusing that but my point is that clearly older people are more likely to be mis-sold as they simply don't understand the details. I think that is clearly obvious.

callum9999 wrote: »

I have given you a perfectly good answer - you are just choosing to throw a hissy-fit because it's not convenient to what you want to hear...

No. I responded in a curt manner because you chose to jump to a conclusion that I might be "jumping on the PPI bandwagon".
I actually asked a question about the Vanquis ROP and whether it was worth pursuing on a 'mis-sold' basis based on the my previous comments about my father's age, which have clearly no bearing on the matter!

callum9999 wrote: »

Try to get evidence of mis-selling and then make a claim. If there is no evidence then move on. What exactly is wrong with that? Your claim that old people should be exempt from contracts because "they don't always fully understand them" is absolutely ridiculous. If that were to be the case then companies would have to refuse to give them any contracts at all.

No. I didn't claim old people should be exempt from contracts. It is true that older people do not fully understand these issues and therefore I had implied that there may be more of an element of mis-selling in these cases, but I did not state they should be exempt.

I stand by my claim that older people are more likely to be mis-sold - I am sure there is evidence of that (although don't quote me!).
My father has told me he had no idea what this Plan was and cannot remember being offered it or offered to opt-out. And being and older person, I need to tread lightly in terms of going in all-guns blazing. Being older, he could well have been told about this product and informed that he could opt-out but just forgot or didn't understand it.
I suppose the Vanquis POV is that this is not insurance and therefore doesn't follow the same criteria as a PPI policy would in terms of the conditions required to fulfill the insurance??

Mrs_Ryan

I did complain about this myself, I asked to excercise this when I went into financial difficulty, even providing proof and they refused to allow me to - I asked them to remove it several times which they never did and they are still charging me for it despite the card being on a DMP.
They got very defensive about it when I complained, saying it wasnt PPI but I said why sell it to me (I used to work in the finance industry so dont ever take PPI but I agreed to take it when they said if I ever needed it I could take a payment holiday, I thought it might be useful) when you have no intention of letting me use it?
Complete con if you ask me.

d0nnyoz

Mrs_Ryan wrote: »

They got very defensive about it when I complained ...

I rest my case!

Mrs_Ryan wrote: »

Complete con if you ask me.

Exactly my point.

Does anyone have any other information relating to the ROP con and whether it is worth pursuing?
Does anyone know the stance on this from either the OFT or FSA?

camuk81

Let me give you a brief outline as I had a "discussion" with Vanquis about the same thing.

Your dad will have sent the application in and either said yes or no.

He then will have got an introduction call where we will have been asked again. It may be worth asking Vanquis if your dad is convinced he didn't take this as this occurred to me.

They had to trace the original call and then every month while there was a debit balance this was applied, so every month i had to phone and argue the toss again with them!

Get a copy of the original application and trace the call, if its a no then you may be able to get this back.

Personally for me I think this is a case of people in the call centre being targeted on signing people up on this and therefore they "push" people onto it

d0nnyoz

osborn99 wrote: »

Change your attitude and people might reply

My attitude to what?
I don't think my OP had an attitude. Just asking some advise.

d0nnyoz

Thanks camuk81.
As I've mentioned it could be a legitimate case for Vanquis in that they gave my father ample opportunity to opt-out. And in his forgetful mind (as older people do tend to forgot things or get slightly confused with more detailed discussions - not all of them though!) he may well have just brushed over this and said yes to everything.

Will Vanquis provide a copy of the original agreement?
And will they provide a copy of the original introduction call?
I assume there is a fee for this too!