Car insurance -covered or not !

Joe_Horner

A courtesy car is NOT a hire car because there is no contract for hire (requiring you to pay for use of the car) involved. If you "hire" something for free you're not hiring it, you're borrowing it!

Provided your insurance doesn't specify that the car must be separately insured for DOC cover, make sure you have your certificate with you, the receipt from your new purchase / trade-in to show it's not our car and, preferably, the policy booklet so you can show there are no restrictions.

By carrying those docs you're actually going way further than you need to in terms of evidence so, if some stroppy traffic PC happens to stop you and try to find fault, when they seize the car you'll have a solid case for damages

Can't remember the relevant caselaw regarding DOC cover off the top of my head but no doubt someone will be along with it shortly.....

vaio

Suppose that depends on the garage, some will have dedicated cars, other will use cars from sales stock.

vaio

bris wrote: »

Yes it does, if a car isn't insured it can't be on the road, in fact it's now against the law to have a car on the road that isn't insured. All third party insurance when driving another car has always been on the basis that the car is legal and insured.

Nonsense, some policies make it a requirement that the DOC car is covered in its own right but none of the policies I've ever had have had that requirement

Joe_Horner

bris wrote: »

Yes it does, if a car isn't insured it can't be on the road, in fact it's now against the law to have a car on the road that isn't insured. All third party insurance when driving another car has always been on the basis that the car is legal and insured.

Wrong in so many ways.

Whether or not DOC cover requires the car to have its own policy depends ONLY on the exact wording of the policy in that respect. DOC is NOT a legally required cover, so the companies are free to apply (or not) any conditions they wish to it but those conditions MUST be stated in the policy wording at the time the policy starts - they can't be inserted retrospectively.

The continuous insurance regulations make it an offence to be the keeper of an uninsured vehicle, with a statutory exception for one which is not being used or kept on road and is declared as such (ie: a SORN declaration has been made).

As he's no longer the keeper of this car (notwithstanding the paperwork for the change of keeper taking time to process) he would be committing NO offence by having it on the road provided he had suitable third party insurance.

The police also do NOT have roadside powers of seizure for a "keeping uninsured" offence - the can only seize for driving without insurance, which the OP is clearly not planning to do!

im-lost

bris wrote: »

Yes it does, if a car isn't insured it can't be on the road, in fact it's now against the law to have a car on the road that isn't insured. All third party insurance when driving another car has always been on the basis that the car is legal and insured.

That simply isn't the case, please get your facts right before commenting.

If your Insurance makes no mention of the other car needing to be insured
then it doesn't have to be.

The fact that a car needs insurance to 'be on the road' is neither
here nor there, the fact you have 3rd party cover, if your insurance
makes no stipulations that it must have its own policy, means it
it has insurance whilst you are using it.

There was a case recently, I forget the names, whereby man a borrows
a car from his friend, man b, police seized the car from man a on the basis
that man b hadn't had an insurance policy on it, thereby man A's 'driving other
cars' clause wasn't valid.

It went to court, 3 judges ruled that as man A's insurance policy made no
reference to man b needing insurance on the car, then man A's insurance
did cover him to drive man b's uninsured car.

The relevent regulations make no mention that a car must have a policy in
force to invoke peoples 'driving other cars' clause, they only stipulate that a
car must be insured to be on the road..

thenudeone

This was the case:
http://www.casecheck.co.uk/Default.aspx?tabid=1184&EntryID=17385

The driver produced a valid certificate giving DOC cover but his insurers' call centre told the police (wrongly) that the DOC was only valid if there was a another policy covering the vehicle, which there wasn't. The police seized the car. The court simply confirmed the existing wording of the law, which is that a seizure is only valid if the driver doesn't produce a valid certificate at the time of the stop. In this case, the driver had, so the seizure was illegal.

londonTiger

traders will tell you you are insuraned because it keeps the buyer at ease, and they know a mature driver is unlikely to twang it, so they just take a chance. But a verbal agreement isn't worth anything. You need written documentation that's signed by the seller that they have insurance for you. Otherwise I would not risk it.

vaio

londonTiger wrote: »

traders will tell you you are insuraned because it keeps the buyer at ease, and they know a mature driver is unlikely to twang it, so they just take a chance. .......

Given the consequences of an insurance conviction or two for a trader, loss of licence, eye watering premiums (if cover available at all) etc etc I find your scenario most unlikely

shaun_from_Africa

I agree.
Driving without insurance = conviction for driver.
Allowing to drive without insurance = conviction for trader.

dacouch

vaio wrote: »

Given the consequences of an insurance conviction or two for a trader, loss of licence, eye watering premiums (if cover available at all) etc etc I find your scenario most unlikely

I dunno, I deal with lots of traders, the bona fide dealers with proper premises tend to know how their Insurance works. The smaller ones with premises especially if they were trading from home recentyish often think anyone can drive their cars. They especially have a tendency to allow their young mechanics or sons to drive anything privately when in reality they might be just restricted to driving cars in connection with the business eg test drives

You can explain it to them many times but you still find they are not doing it correctly. You often find out when there's an accident or a call from the police.

It's good business practice for a trader to check and photocopy all of the drivers of a courtesy car and ideally take a copy of a utility bill