Expert advice needed on issues with a car bought from a dealer

adamlewis216

Please see the below emails that cover most of the issue

The £100 he refers to was due to us agreeing the price prior to my arrival. He agreed to give me £795 for my part ex vehicle. So I was paying £2500 cash and my vehicle for the car he was selling at £3295. Unfortunately, he hijacked me at the point of sale and reduced my vehicle part ex price by £100 based on his checks that said the mileage had been altered. he had 24 hours to do checkes prior to me travelling all the way to bradford after he agreed a price. Of course I have not paid this as the car was not as advertised, and him selling my part ex car on his website with the false mileage and at the price we agreed of £795.. not the reduced £695 that he gave me.

Its clear he will not help me so I dont know what to do next or if I have a case.. can anyone help?? Thanks in advance.

Adam


> From: me
> To: [EMAIL="pmotorhouse@hotmail.co.uk"]pmotorhouse@hotmail.co.uk[/EMAIL]
> Subject: Email enquiry from your RAZSOR website: issue with recent purchase of vehicle from your dealership

> Subject: issue with recent purchase of vehicle from your dealership

> dear sirs,
>
> on the 10th of march this year I purchased a peugout 307 convertable ****** from your business.
>
> unfortunately since this date I have had a number of issues. firstly, the car is not as you advertised in your auto trader advert, namely there is no sat nav, cd multi changer or cruise controls. these were clearly advertised as part of the spec and I have obtained a copy of the ad from autotrader to confirm this.
>
> last week was the first time the weather has been sunny enough to retract the roof. upon the first time of putting it down it showed an error fault and refused to come back up. I had to seek a mechanic to manually put the roof up and it is now not working.
>
> there has also been a number of error faults from the engine management system intermitantly coming on for periods then going off again such anti pollution fault.
>
> I wish to have this matter resolved. can you confirm if the car comes with the traditional 3 month warranty a dealer usually offers, and if not what your intend to do about the issue. these are clearly not wear and tear issues but faults that should be correct and in full working order.
>
> I wish to have this matter resolved either by repair or by return of the vehicle for refund. I intend to place the vehicle in to a peugout dealer for examination, however I will await your response within 7 days before in order to take your guidance on how you wish the matter to be dealt with.
>
> kind regards,
>
> Adam Lewis
>
From: [EMAIL="pmotorhouse@hotmail.co.uk"]pmotorhouse@hotmail.co.uk[/EMAIL]
To: me
Subject: RE: Email enquiry from your RAZSOR website: issue with recent purchase of vehicle from your dealership
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 11:20:42 +0100

WE GIVE A WARRANTY ON THE ENGINE AND GEAR BOX



From: me
To: [EMAIL="pmotorhouse@hotmail.co.uk"]pmotorhouse@hotmail.co.uk[/EMAIL]
Subject: issue with recent purchase of vehicle from your dealership - urgent
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 17:59:12 +0100

Dear Sirs,

Unfortunately your response is not satisfactory or helpful in anyway.

I detail the following issues with the vehicle you have sold me.

1. Engine management light coming on intermittently for periods of days then going off again.

2. Anti pollution fault message appearing in the dash display (this is currently showing)

3. ESP fault message appearing in the dash display coming on intermittently.

4. Electric roof fault message showing in dash display after the first time of having it retracted. The fault causing the roof to be inoperable and leaving it stuck in open position. This required a mechanic to close it manually - and the fault has left the electric roof out of use.

5. The car seems to have no acceleration or power when started from cold for a few seconds and idles before acceleration seems to kick in.

6. The car does not fit the description as you advertised. The car was advertised with the following features. Navigation system, Cruise control, telephone, and CD multi changer. None of these are actually present in the vehicle and therefore it was falsely advertised. I was specifically looking for a car with these features, and feel I have been mislead and induced into buying a car that does not meet the specification you described. I could have bought a standard 307cc a lot nearer to home, but travelled all the way to bradford to purchase yours solely due to its higher spec, which unfortunately only appears to be leather seats. It was a number of days before I realised this and I questioned that it was my mistake and that maybe I had misread the advert and I was embarrassed. I have since contacted auto trader who have sent me a copy of the advert you posted, and it is clear that I have made no error and that the car i bought was not as you advertised and did not have the features you claimed.

Having never bought a car from a dealer previously I felt I had no recourse to get these matters sorted as I have always bought privately.

I have now done thorough research and am now aware of my rights.

As you are a dealer and not a private seller you must comply with the SALE OF GOODS ACT 1979 (as amended) , the CONSUMER PROTECTION FROM UNFAIR TRADING REGULATIONS 2008 and the OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING document OFT1152con entitled OFT guidance for second hand car dealers.

My rights

I have bought a motor vehicle from you less than 3 months ago (qualifies within the reasonable time)

The vehicle has a number of faults present that need examination and possible repair. As the vehicle was purchased within the last six months the faults are presumed to have been present at the point of purchase (see OFT document attached) and the burden of proof is on you as a trader to prove they were not present at the time of purchase. It is clear that these were present as the have developed straight away after purchase of the car and the roof fault happened on its first time of the roof being placed down as the weather finally permitted. Please read the attached guidance if you are unclear on these issues.

As it is within 6 months and there is no evidence to suggest that the faults were not present at the time of purchase you are liable to repair, replace or take return of the vehicle.

This letter is your second opportunity to resolve these issues with me and I hope we can finally resolve them on this occasion.

I must offer you the right to inspect the vehicle, and give you the opportunity to repair it yourselves or at a garage of your choice. I am willing to allow you to inspect the vehicle and repair it at any place you chose. However, if it is to be in Bradford, as described in the OFT document - you will be liable for the transport costs of picking up the vehicle and its return. I am very willing to take the vehicle to a local peugout service centre for examination. I am worried that driving the vehicle in this condition may make it worse and so I hope to have a speedy response.

I will also offer you the option to collect the vehicle for return upon either a full refund of the purchase price or a return of my part ex vehicle and the rest of the cash balance I paid.

False advertisement of vehicles

It is against the law to falsely advertise a product for sale and mislead someone into a sale. I wish compensation in lieu of the specified items missing from the vehicle or the vehicle replaced with a vehicle with the higher spec of the same age and mileage.

Upon part exchanging my previous vehicle as part of this sale, you notified me upon attending your garage that you needed to reduce the part exchange value of my car by £100 due to your discovery the car had been 'clocked' (as in the mileage had been altered). You stated that the mileage on the clock of around 92,000 miles was not the vehicles true mileage, and according to your checks the true mileage was around 140,000 miles. The mileage had been altered long before I owned that vehicle and was not any fault of my own, it is clear I was unaware of this. You told me that as a respected dealer, now that you knew the true mileage of the vehicle you would have to tell anyone you sell it onto the true mileage and so this reduces its value. This is correct and the OFT guidance document is very clear on how a dealer should deal with a cars mileage. I am pleased you are aware of this.

However, after agreeing to the part-ex reduction of £100, to my dismay I have seen you advertising my part exchanged vehicle on Auto Trader and your own website, for sale with a mileage detailed at 90,000. It is clear that despite knowing the car has been 'clocked' as a dealer you are prepared to again falsely advertise a vehicle and mislead another customer into buying a car which is not as it claims. This is wholly against the above acts and guidance and strictly prohibit for a motor dealer to act in such a way. You can clearly see why I now may question your honesty and integrity. Auto trader has provided me with a copy of this advert and hold a copy themselves.

Having looked on the internet at others suffering from similar problems with 307cc's it is clear that a problem with the roof and with the engine faults can cost anywhere between a small amount all the way up to £2000 - £3000 to put right. Without examination it is unknown the extent of the problems, or the costs involved. This is why I am keen to have the car examined as soon as possible as it may not be safe for me and my family to drive, and I need to know the full extent of the problems. You need to decide as soon as possible if it is to be looked at a peugeot dealership or a nominated garage by your selves.

Please answer ALL of the following questions clearly in your reply -

a/ Do you accept responsibility for the faults with the vehicle - and if not a full explanation as to why not taking into consideration the OFT guidance to dealers document enclosed in this email.

b/ Whether you plan to accept the vehicle in return for the value I paid, or endeavour to repair it.

b1/ If you wish to repair it - where, when and the logistics of the repair, or permission to place the vehicle in for repair at a garage selected by me

b2/ If you wish its return, the logistics of its return.

d/ What compensation you wish to offer me with regards to the false advertisement you placed that induced me to buy this car in lieu of the features missing from this vehicle

e/ your response in relation to your false advertisement of the Toyota Previa I part exchanged as part of the sale.

Please respond fully, and within a maximum of 14 days - failure to do so will result in

a/ I will place the car in for examination at a cost to you as I am concerned it is unsafe. This will be pursued on top of a full refund should the car still be returned.

b/ Consideration of reporting you to the OFT and trading standards, whilst pursuing legal action for any costs I incur and for a resolution to the vehicles issues.

I wish to work with you to get these problems sorted in an amicable way and am open to discussions as to how we can achieve this, so please assist me without the need for legal action.

Kind Regards,

Adam Lewis


From: [EMAIL="pmotorhouse@hotmail.co.uk"]pmotorhouse@hotmail.co.uk[/EMAIL]
To: me
Subject: RE: issue with recent purchase of vehicle from your dealership - urgent
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 12:28:20 +0100

firstly your husband purchased the car. he left us a balance of 100 to pay which he never did.

the contract was broken when he didnt pay the balance.

the vehicle u sold us ie privia had more miles than it was showing and we did the deal on a trade sale basis. the roof was working when your husband checked the car. no lights were showing. har was fault free

thanks

bryanb

Don't really have the inclination to wade through that lot. Could you tell us the important bits?

s_b

i think pewgot 307
dont buy one
covers most eventualities here unfortunately

i think thats the gist
and i agree
a quick googlepants will back this up im sure

thegirlintheattic

Don't think you have much luck re: sat nav, cruise control etc. as when you viewed the car it is easy to check if those are there or not and operational.

What he is selling your car for doesn't matter - he can sell it at any price he likes. If you agreed the part-ex price then it was agreed.

Was it as the garage said a trade sale?

I think you need to separate the issues out here. Short, simple letter - these are the FAULTS (not spec probelms, not part-ex problems) with the car and asking them to look at them and fix it.

adamlewis216

thanks.. sorry for the length.. just a bit annoyed at the lack of clear response or assistance from the dealer and found myself venting it here.. yes agreed the issues are separate.. and in honestly its just getting it fixed I want.. the other issues I suppose are to show him he is clearly dodgy.. what do you mean by trade sale? thanks again for your responses .

Tilt

If the car was advertised as having certain features (such as sat nav/ CD muti-changer), then it should have them end of. If not, then the car has been miss-sold and you should of rejected it. But now you have had it almost 3 months, you could be deemed to have accepted it. As far as the defects are concerned, seller is obliged to rectify other wise you could have repairs done and persue him for the costs via small claims court under the SOGA if necessary. Warranty is irrelevant and does not reduce or replace your statutory rights.

adamlewis216

yes I would agree.. I should have.. but I didn't realise all what was missing until I had drove home 50 miles.. and later checked the ad.. stupidly didn't think there was much I could do or that what I could do would be too much hassle.. in reality I will accept that.. but what do folks think about my rights as far as the faults.. I checked the roof once when I bought it.. the second time a few months later when the sun finally shone it failed

patman99

Btw, OP, it is not good to include email addresses and car reg numbers in your postings. Also, your initial posting of the email exchange was back-to-front as this is the way email clients work ie newer responses ahead of older ones. This makes your opening post hard to get to grips with.

As you had no need to open the roof prior to the sunny weather you would have had no idea there was an issue with it. As for a claim under the SOGA, you may need more expert advice (IE CAB). You say it was a trade sale so the garage may have done this in order to reduce your rights so you may have a complaint about that, as T/S take a dim view of dealerships doing this and will take great interest in them.

funkycoldribena

Im completely baffled-how can you not notice that satnav,telephone,cc and autochanger were not fitted when you bought it???
Its not as if it was something small like a cupholder.Bit like buying a house and then complaining the conservatory is missing.

adamlewis216

can somebody please explain what a trade sale is.. and thanks about regarding numbers etc first post so new to this

thegirlintheattic

A trade sale usually happens between two motor traders, you don't get a warranty or any after-sales stuff, it's sold as seen but for a lower trade price(can be £100s off).