a question about prepayment meters

[Deleted User]

This is aimed at industry insiders but may be of interest to others.
I do safety checks on credit meters where meter readers have not accessed them for over two years, they are known as " must reads".Its just dawned on me that I, or any of my workmates, have never done a two year " must read " safety inspection on any prepayment meters.
Given that the electric prepayment meter is by far the most bypassed meter by a wide margin, it seems crazy that a good percentage of these meters never get inspected for years and years.
Does anyone have any explanation why the most fiddled meter is immune from a proper two year safety inspection like credit meters get?
All the free energy obtained by bypassing resurfaces in the end by higher costs to us all, it baffles me why it continues.

SwanJon

My guess (and that's all it is) is that PPMs get visited more often than credit meters - the original install counts, as do any reset/windon visits.
I know that the must read process runs in exactly the same way for credit/PPM for BG, even after all the extra data that is collected by the PPM.

PS - do you have anything to back up the claim about electricity PPMs being the most bypassed?

[Deleted User]

Hi Swanjon, prepays get less read visits than credits at Brit Gas, I and my workmates ( who bother to check meters for bypass anyway ) all find vastly more electric prepays fiddled. Its the easiest to fiddle.The big old gas prepays are being phased out now for smaller E6 types. they were a doddle to bypass also..I am very keen on bypass checks and the credit meter bypass is much much rarer. Seeing as no ones getting into a large percentage of prepays no ones got any data. they ve not been looked at for five years when electric key meters took over from electric card meters

anguk

I've got prepayment meters for both gas and electric, nobody has checked the electric meter since it was upgraded about 5 years ago but someone calls to look at the gas meter every couple of years (I just thought it was a safety check). The gas meter is outside, the electric inside and I'm with British Gas.

How on earth can you fiddle a prepayment meter without the energy company knowing, surely they'd realise the meter wasn't being topped up? If an average household used £40 a month electric but one house was only using a fiver surely they'd be suspicious.

I realise I'm probably being incredibly naive but I just can't understand how meters can be fiddled or how people would get away with it? I didn't even realise that it was possible to fiddle a prepayment meter until Bianca did it on Eastenders and I still didn't understand how it would work.

[Deleted User]

hi anguk. if someone actually monitored your useage, (which they dont ) and sent someone round to check when its not topped up for, say, 6 months ( which they don t ) theoretically prepay meters would be bypass free in general. I can assure you there are huge numbers of prepays in the rougher side of town shall we say, where no ones ever got in ever since the upgrade from card to key.I would be doing thousands of " must reads " on them if there were, instead I am doing none.
The only prepays I have done as "must reads " in my life are five gas prepays for Scottish and Southern last year, and three of the five were bypassed. I normally work for Brit Gas and EDF and have never done any. neither has anyone I know

[Deleted User]

I am just referring to prepays that we never get into see,as i can be reading prepays all day on a six monthly cyclic basis in some areas. Access rate is very low anyway on all prepay meters, much lower than credit, around the 50 % mark as against 65% to 70% on credits. I have recently found a prepay electric and gas bypass which was approx 4 years fiddled, another one only last week with 2 and a half year fiddle. I suprise people by turning up late on a Saturday afternoon and they actually open the door for a change

chanz4

Pre-pays dont have the 2 year the rule the same, as they are giving a read every time its topped up. Inregards to electric tampers, this is very high and normal involved a bypass lead between 1&4 ports. Canabis farms and a lot of undesirables do it, it can be tricky to detect as people do make small payments to try and avoid detection although doesnt work all that long. Inregards to the none topups, the property could be empty, imagine how many customers a supplier has

chanz4

sacsquacco wrote: »

Hi Swanjon, prepays get less read visits than credits at Brit Gas, I and my workmates ( who bother to check meters for bypass anyway ) all find vastly more electric prepays fiddled. Its the easiest to fiddle.The big old gas prepays are being phased out now for smaller E6 types. they were a doddle to bypass also..I am very keen on bypass checks and the credit meter bypass is much much rarer. Seeing as no ones getting into a large percentage of prepays no ones got any data. they ve not been looked at for five years when electric key meters took over from electric card meters

bet you cant spot a valve tamper, liverpool / north east are experts at it

Terrylw1

The 2 year rule on Must Be Reads is for all meters to ensure a very very basic eyeball check. Remote readings and customer readings will reset the settlement process to another 14 months but they are not able to reset the Must Be Read process.

Its been a complaint area of sorts for years. You get a customer who has always supplied a reading for each bill, and paid on time for years and have to explain this to them. They don't like it. Its understandable given the meter reader does very little in terms of safety.

The distributor also has to view the service/cut off every 2 years and they are far more strict from my experience as they have learnt of the risks. Not sure if its 2 years on gas. I know the NEDL/YEDL guys even set this at 6 months at one point due to past experiences with a customer.

I agree with SwanJon. A meter operator visit can qualify hence a decom/recom is valid. I've found that some suppliers are quite bad at this and just use reading data.

I think its also fair to say that that this area has gathered speed over the past, maybe 5 years. Its unregulated despite being a condition and I know of some suppliers that just didn't bother for years....Ofgem didn't do anything, they are rubbish at monitoring this industry. What forced the issue is how Elexon have been tightening up the settlement data end since MBR is key to accurate settling on long term estimated sites.

Terrylw1

anguk wrote: »

I've got prepayment meters for both gas and electric, nobody has checked the electric meter since it was upgraded about 5 years ago but someone calls to look at the gas meter every couple of years (I just thought it was a safety check). The gas meter is outside, the electric inside and I'm with British Gas.

How on earth can you fiddle a prepayment meter without the energy company knowing, surely they'd realise the meter wasn't being topped up? If an average household used £40 a month electric but one house was only using a fiver surely they'd be suspicious.

I realise I'm probably being incredibly naive but I just can't understand how meters can be fiddled or how people would get away with it? I didn't even realise that it was possible to fiddle a prepayment meter until Bianca did it on Eastenders and I still didn't understand how it would work.

Unless you top up the supplier doesn't get the meter snapshot of he reading with the payment which they then add to your account to balance it. If you don't let them in to read the meter, they can't bill you up from that angle.

Since on old billing systems you had seperate fuel accounts, its very possible to pay one and fiddle the other without them being clever enough in their processes to check. Newer systems link them, but process problems still, exist where one team work gas, one elec and they don't communicate...jobs worth attitude.

The only thing then creating a bill would be an estimate. This would trigger collection activity since no payments would be coming in.

Now, if you had no live account in the suppliers billing system...if you do the above with a tamper, they don't know you exist and it just looks like a vacant property.

Wasn't Bianca using one of the latest breed of PPM frauds, fraudulent keys?

I remember when we had token meters. One of the guys from the old days told me how he once went out and they found the customer had been making their own tokens out of some substance which then reduced to mush!

[Deleted User]

I definitely can, and do spot valve tampers chanz4 ! they are getting more common now, easy to spot IF i can get in. The keys can be monitored,but what if they never take them to the shop. Theres no one monitoring anything at all. The fiddling prepays carry on for years. Meters are supposed to have visual safety inspections every two years, which they get, EXCEPT the prepays, the meter which definitely needs one. The number of warrants needed to get into all these properties and all the money the suppliers would have to recompense the grid has some bearing on why nothing is done.
have not heard about fraudulent keys Terry, six inch of thick wire is cheaper. I ve sent an email off to OFGEM voicing my concern, bet they v just binned it.