EDF E7 to Single Rate Meter Change Woes

Colin_London

Beginning to wish I had never bothered switching to EDF. We had an Economy Seven meter but as we don't have any Storage Heating our previous supplier EON were more than happy to take both readings and charge them at the same rate on any of their single rate tariffs.

When I signed up to switch to EDF I had no reason to believe that they would be any different, but soon after the switch occurred I could see from the online system that they had put us on an Economy Seven tariff. After speaking to them they apologised but stated they couldn't switch me to a normal tariff whilst I had an E7 meter as it was their policy.

So I had little choice but to accept their offer for a free switch to a single rate meter. Had to take a day off work on the 14th April (v. inconvenient at present) and the meter was changed by Siemens.

That was when the problems really started......

I didn't expect the new meter to appear on my account straight away, but after one enquiry and about 2 weeks it did, and I got an email letter indicating I was now on a standard tariff. Ok.

But the alarm bells started ringing when I saw that the old meter was also still on the account, and I was unable to enter any readings for the new meter without also entering reading for the old meter.

So I phoned up EDF and they say they can see there is a problem, but not to worry as they would sort it out.

And I wait..... until one day a few weeks ago my new meter disappeared and I was left with only my old meter on the account! An email enquiry about this gets zero response.

Obviously concerned I phone EDF again last weekend. They admit the problem is still, there, and can't work out what is going on exactly (only that there was some sort of problem with entering the closing readings for the old meter, despite them being provided both by the meter fitter and by myself).

So I'm told again that a 'colleague' would fix it in a few days. Further concern arises when I then give them a reading for the new meter. He starts asking questions as to whether I have read it correctly. Only by chance do I then inform him of the starting reading for the meter on 14th April. It turns out he was asking because their system had the new meter down as a Zero read at install, when in fact it started at over 10000!

Now Wednesday and its still not sorted. Getting concerned that I'm about to get an erroneous bill for a huge amount of money due to their disasterous handling of this meter change, but despite my best efforts I don't seem able to avert this oncoming disaster

Is there anyone at EDF Customer Services who can actually sort out problems like this. One of the reps I spoke to said they had a 'large backlog' but I need to get this sorted out ASAP before a bill is generated, and it's causing me extra grief I don't need at present.

And all this because EDF have a different policy from all the other suppliers on premises with E7 meters :mad:

Terrylw1

OK, 2 seperate issues here.

1 - E7 to single rate. All suppliers have the ability to register the E7 meters that can bill, as single rate. The issue is the fact that not all are allowed to bill at standard rate per the standing data the industry runs off called Market Domain Data (MDD). Its possible that it was Eon who switched your billing when they knew they should have paid for a meter change, thus making EDF correct. EDF's comment is incorrect as they can do it but can choose not to offer it in favour of a meter change. Since the meter change costs them money, no senior manager would agree a commercial decision like that. I'm sure other posters are already billed this way from other threads.

2 - the meter change reading. It could be that the installed reading was not passed to the Data Collector who has to validate it. If so, the supplier calls the Meter Operator who did the work and asks for the meter readings to be sent again.

However, since the readings have to validates based on previous consumption records, the Data Collector can Fail it. Now since this is a physical event that changes the readings, the Data Collector now had to Deem (estimate) the readings. For an installed reading, they will set this to all zeroes, thus causing your problem...and your suppler won't know any different without getting a reading off your meter because all they can see is one installed reading Failed and a replacement one Valid set to all zeroes. They should investigate it though, Deemed readings are only estimates.

If the Data Collector Failed the removed readings, their software will automatically fail the new meters opening readings with some agents. The Deeming gets used again for the removed meter which will be more accurate if they have been getting readings from your property in the past, but its still only an estimate.

Has the supplier accepted the removed and installed readings off the tag/label from you? If they agree, they just need to sort their agents out. If they disagree, they will need to send out the Meter Operators engineer again to check the tag/label says what you say. Be onsite if you can incase the engineer has an issue with it, since you can question him.

Its not rocket science from a supplier point of view, but they do need to correct the agents systems or it will cause your readings to potentially fail in the future.

The fact both were on the account is worrying though as it suggests you would get billed on both.

Make a complaint, tell them to stop billing until resolved and only pay what you expect to so you don't fall behind.

In terms of complaining on issue 1, it could be Eon's fault. It is possible to check this, if you want to, I can tell you how as the data needed is on Elexon's website but you would need one data item from the old meter first.

Colin_London

Thanks Terry,

EDF must have got some info from the meter installer as when the new meter did appear on my account it had the correct reference number. Thinking back now an earlier agent I spoke to did confirm they had the starting reading. However, from what you are saying it sounds like the Data Collector has since failed the readings, probably due to the fact that I had only recently switched and they have no hard facts about my consumption. This could I suppose explain why the new meter disappeared and now they are saying the installed reading is showing as 00000 on their system.

BUT EDF agreed to change my meter just a few weeks after I switched from EON. They should not be failing the installation readings in this case because obviously they know they do not have any history of my consumption. The installers reading is the only evidence they can rely on in this case (and surely they trust their contractor to report correctly like any other of their meter reading contractors?!).

I of course have the install/remove tag card from the meter installer - treasuring it like gold dust at present! All the readings I have given are in line with what is on the card. I can send them photos of the thing if they really want it!

And you are right, I am extremely concerned that I have two meters on my account and EDF seem incapable of sorting the mess out. I can't even comprehend how they could let this happen as they arranged the meter swap out themselves!

I was hoping this could get resolved without a complaint but the complete lack of communication from EDF makes me think otherwise (so much for their guarantees that they respond to emails within x hours - I didn't even get an acknowledgement of my last one :mad:

Terrylw1

When you switch, the previous suppliers Data Collector passes your last 12 months consumption on to the new suppliers Data Collector. This means that the same consumption would be used.

The problem with validation is that its done by a different agent than the meter changers. All meter works is done by the Meter Operator. All meter readings are validated by the Data Collector. If they come to take a reading, its the Data Collector who uses the agent contracted to come out to you, known as a Data Retriever. In the case of a meter change, the Meter Operators engineer does the change and takes the readings. These details are then passed to the Data Collector to validate and the supplier only gets the new meter details without readings because the Data Collector has to apply the validation first.

Whilst these agents are often part of the same group of companies, they have to trade separately per their licence.

So, its technically not the same place checking that engineers readings.

There are all sorts of reasons why these readings fail and it can often be bogus. The suppliers job in this is to look at it all and contact the agents to revalidate them.

The industry process means the Data Collectors can Fail your correct readings and replace them with Deemed readings. The suppliers job is to correct all of it. The first thing the supplier does is check if hey can correct it from what they can see from their agents and the next stage us ask you about the tag/label. The Data Collector can refuse to change this and the supplier has to escalate it by sending the Meter Operators engineer again to confirm it and then end up speaking to agent managers ti force ut if need be.

Now, if you complain...issues around agents which can span weeks...quickly become days as complaints get prioritised over normal customer & internal billing rejection queries.

What you should is ask if they have had those readings you have and whether turf are Failed or Valid. If both Valid, they should have been used. If Failed, expect yo find some Deemed replacements.

I've seen cases where a customer has a meter removed on say 45768 and the Data Collector Fails it and replaces with a removal reading of 00000! You can imagine the high bill that would create!

Also, if the supplier never got the reads of the Data Collector...did the Meter Operator pass them on...all investigations a supplier would be doing to see where it went wrong.

In terms of your account, I've seen this on these newer systems. Older systems often had transactional processes that force the user to remove the meter and fit the new one, so its all or nothing. Newer systems like SAP that EDF have upgraded to have a nasty habit of not being hard coded like this so a user could first the new meter and then be unable to remove the old one (perhaps no readings for it) which means you get billed for both. However this is a process & quality issue and by should have just removed that new meter until they resolved the other...or the common sense approach if checking you have everything you need before doing anything!

dogshome

Phoning EDF's Customer Services isn't the way to go with these problems
( Each individual you speak to can have Good/Bad knowledge of the systems, and with EDF's present billing problems they are under huge pressure with no time to follow problems through )

A letter headed Complaint setting out the history and those all important meter readings, will move the matter up the management chain to a team who's job it is to do nothing else but resolve problems.

Because of EDF's present Billing/Direct Debit shambles, it would be wise to keep an eye on the meter and work out for yourself appx. what the bills should be

keiran

Terrylw1,

I've been reading these forums for a while now and appreciate that you try to explain this meter reading/data collection process to us lay people. Clearly you have intimate knowledge of the industry/process. I must admit that I can barely follow the convoluted machinations you describe, despite having several degrees and a sharp mathematical mind.

I suspect that I, too, was caught up in these processes when I switched last year to Scottish Power. This caused what I think is a poor start to a 3.5 year relationship ( long fixed rate).

What perplexes me is this:- Why can't the power companies accept the customers' figures for annual consumption which they would provide at the time of the switch ( and which would be used to work out their initial monthly direct debit amount)?

The customers could provide an accurate figure, averaged over several years. In due course, the new company would receive the annual consumption figures from the previous supplier in the cumbersome manner that you have described. And surely once a year the new company could send out a meter reader to do what Scottish Power calls an "actual" reading ( customers' readings are apparently not actual!)

What would be wrong with this straightforward process? Do power companies think all their customers are liars and thieves, wantonly giving false readings?

Pincher

keiran wrote: »

What perplexes me is this:- Why can't the power companies accept the customers' figures for annual consumption which they would provide at the time of the switch ( and which would be used to work out their initial monthly direct debit amount)?

Obviously never worked in retail.

Terrylw1

keiran wrote: »

Terrylw1,

I've been reading these forums for a while now and appreciate that you try to explain this meter reading/data collection process to us lay people. Clearly you have intimate knowledge of the industry/process. I must admit that I can barely follow the convoluted machinations you describe, despite having several degrees and a sharp mathematical mind.

I suspect that I, too, was caught up in these processes when I switched last year to Scottish Power. This caused what I think is a poor start to a 3.5 year relationship ( long fixed rate).

What perplexes me is this:- Why can't the power companies accept the customers' figures for annual consumption which they would provide at the time of the switch ( and which would be used to work out their initial monthly direct debit amount)?

The customers could provide an accurate figure, averaged over several years. In due course, the new company would receive the annual consumption figures from the previous supplier in the cumbersome manner that you have described. And surely once a year the new company could send out a meter reader to do what Scottish Power calls an "actual" reading ( customers' readings are apparently not actual!)

What would be wrong with this straightforward process? Do power companies think all their customers are liars and thieves, wantonly giving false readings?

It comes from over a decade of working in the sector, for some years resolving threads like these and for the most part trying to improve processes to prevent them (a largely never ending task with senior managers who don't really care about anything not in the media eye or beyond the short term!)

The problem with consumption annual figures is that the industry is set up to only allow the supplier to work to make them more accurate. Responsibility for forecasting annual consumption is solely up to the Data Collector, the agent who gets the data from visits to your property which results in a meter reading being taken.

This agent uses industry agreed software and processes for validating and forecasting. The only way to influence that is to get readings into it, then its gets used.

Firm readings are those taken off the meter, so from a meter reader, an engineer performed other works, you or off your PPM key/card. Any coming from the first 2 are sent automatically to the Data Collector, so always get seen. The last 2 go to your supplier, who has to forward them on. It can go wrong here if the supplier doesn't do this because you are making the suppliers calculations more accurate but the Data Collector remains less accurate. This then impacts the forecasting side.

Over the last few years, suppliers have found they are losing hundreds of millions due to these differences, hence they have shifted to improving what they send on and improving their own validation to get the Data Collector sorted (the old method from deregulation meant suppliers just corrected their own billing systems and let the forecasts drift!)

Its true that suppliers pass the last 12 months consumption to each other, but this is only what the old suppliers Data Collector held. Suppliers are not allowed to send it from their own billing systems.

So, the key is getting readings not only in...but validated. Validation is out of your control and it comes down to the suppliers challenging their agents where they agree you are correct. The only way you can prevent this situation is to insure plenty of readings get to this Data Collector because it means they should always fall inline. One of the most common reading validation failures from the Data Collector is easily "twice expected advance", which can occur easily after long term vacant or a change in occupancy with more tenants, swimming pool added, etc. The Data Collection fails it, sends it to the supplier and walks away...but the supplier should check you agree its correct, then instruct the Data Collector to resend it as valid, hence it makes it into your consumption history.

None of this data is available to a sales agent and the DPA prevents a supplier from getting hold of it. So, the sales agent does the best they can and then supplier gets the consumption history via the agreed industry process and your DD could change. Its unclear if suppliers are using this industry data though as its complex and historically its been too messy. However, I do know some are adding it .

Colin_London

Just to close this one off I made a couple of more phone calls to EDF, each time being assured that it would be fixed within about 2 days, but it wasn't. On one call I was assured that the first bill wouldn't be calculated until 6 months after I joined EDF, so not to worry...

Only for the first bill to be generated just a week later.

Amazingly it was mostly correct, except for the fact that they hadn't used the actual reads I had given them a few weeks earlier and had estimated instead (too high).

When I phoned up to correct the readings I got an idea of what had gone on. It sounds like an erroneous bill must have been generated, triggering someone to actually look at the account and implement the meter change, reverse the bill and issue a corrected one.

This is why my new meter didn't actually become accessible on My Account until the actual day the bill was delivered. The assistant said that even though I had given a reading on the phone (I couldn't use My Account as it had the old meter on it) they themselves couldn't input the reading until the meter situation had been corrected (but this didn't explain why they hadn't looked at the notes on the account at that time).

So it seems it doesn't help to phone to tell them their system is wrong in advance, they just wait until the billing goes wrong to sort it out. At least I didn't get a bill for £1000's due to their process check.

Anyway having corrected the readings I now have a further (correct) bill, and i've got my fingers crossed that from now on things should be straightforward on a single rate meter.