Being a minister's wife

adelight

I know i'm late to the thread and haven't finished reading but wanted to give my 2 cents, my family and myself are very close to some priests/ministers in rather unusual positions!
I personally think you two could be a good addition to the church, provided the parish are reasonably open minded and in your guidance of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people you do not offend the church. In some areas you might found yourself as someone young people may confide in rather than being open about that sort of stuff. I think you should probably attend church more often, meet people and other ministers to get an idea of what your role would really be. It has definitely changed from the stereotype.
I actually know a catholic priest who is married (used to be CofE) and there is not that much expected of his wife though (she has her own career, she isn't too involved) he does lead an extremely busy life and makes lots of evening house calls. His parish will always come first, do you think you could cope with that?

churchrat

heretolearn wrote: »

What an interesting thread.

I was surprised to find that CofE or CofS minister's spouses are not necessarily expected to share their faith. My only contact with churches is with new pentacostal ones and the Mr Pastor + Mrs Pastor are always a sort of joint ministerial team. The Mr is in charge (that whole submission thing) but the Mrs is also totally involved, runs groups, takes prayer meetings, preaches and teaches. While I knew that this didn't quite happen like that in the mainstream churches I'm surprised that a total lack of faith/involvement is acceptable to some parishes, if not to all.

I too find it hard to see how someone SO religious as to be a minister could be with an unbeliever. And visa-versa. That's different to being with someone of a different faith, which is basically having the same general idea just supporting a different team. But no faith at all? That means you are really opposite in your views. I can totally understand where Torry etc are coming in form in not being able to accept this.

And I'm saying this as a lifelong atheist who's partner is a committed Christian! We have 'agreed to disagree' but I don't see how we would be able to continue if he suddenly got the calling. I would not be happy living with someone who earned his living feeding what I consider to be codswallop to other people. What he believes himself is one thing, but to influence others in it is going too far for me. Likewise, I doubt he would feel able to continue with me knowing that I could not support what he did. IT's all very well to concentrate on the pastoral side of things. I have no problems with the very good work that most churches and ministers do and I can see a role for them that IS missing in a secular society. But being a minister goes far beyond that and in this discussion the spiritual side of their work is not being mentioned much.

As an atheist I pretty much push that side of my OH's Christianity to the back of my mind and concentrate on the social/community aspects. As a ministers wife I could no longer do that. I would have to fully and straightforwardly accept that the right thing to do with babies is to baptise them to clean them of sin. That you shouldn't be homosexual (yes, hate the sin not the sinner, but to Christians it is still a sin and you shouldn't do it). That a lot of people are going to hell. etc etc. Otherwise how could i truly support my OH in doing these things. It's no longer theoretical - his private belief - it is how he interacts with everything and everyone all the time and the influence he has on the world. I would not feel happy benefiting from money from the church or living in a home provided by it - it's all been conned out of other people as far as I'm concerned.

So I struggle with the idea. OP, that does not make it wrong, but it does mean that I have a lot more sympathy with Torry etc's views even though I am coming at it from a different angle. I think her views are more representative than many of you are imagining. This is not really a 'job' in any way related to other types of work. It is a spiritual calling and lifestyle. I don't think atheists can just pretend that side isn't important and treat churches like some sort of local community centre.

Hello again

I know I said that I would not post again, but, I felt that I had to answer this.

I think what is becoming clear to me is that the people who have a problem understanding how a relationship like mine, or the ops, could work, come from the evangelical side of christianity. And I do see your problem. I would not expect you to understand or agree with my oh on many issues because of the way you practise your religion. That is absolutely fine and of course you have complete freedom to worship how, where and with whom you choose. I hope you would be able to say the same thing for my oh?

heretolearn---at no point in my life have I ever seen my oh's beliefs as "codswallop" and I think its a pity that you see your husbands deeply held beliefs as something worthless and that you think people would be conned by him. My oh believes something that I do not. He is a very intelligent man who has carefully thought through his belief and what he feels he is called to do. Many other, intelligent, sensible people, believe the same as him. It would be the height of disrespect to think of this belief as codswallop and it would be this lack of respect that would end our marriage, not the fact that we disagree on a matter of faith. I do not believe the same thing as him. I have thought it through and have reached a different conclusion. This does not make him wrong and me right. Or vice versa. It is impossible to "prove" or "disprove" the existence of god, that has always been a matter of faith.

My oh lived his faith for a long time before being ordained and so for me, his belief was never "theoretical" but was always present. He has always lived his life as he does now. It has an extra dimension, but I have had a very long time to think about it. And so has he. Like you, he does not see homosexuality as a sin (many christians dont and Jesus never even mentioned it), but he does baptise babies (although, as already pointed out, not all christians do this.) I have never fully and straightforwardly accepted that I have to believe everything that he does. Neither do any of the spouses I know feel that they have to believe something just because their oh does. They all make up their own minds on matters of faith. This is very true for those who worship in different traditions. How can a Jewish spouse fully and straight forwardly accept a christian spouses beliefs?

In mainstream churches, there is no submission thing. Even the spouses that are christian do not always have any part in the running of the church. Many choose to keep their live separate from the parish, particularly if they also have demanding jobs or other interests.

I do not understand why you feel you would be unable to live in a parish house. If your oh was on his own as a minister for the parish he would still have to live somewhere and he would still earn some money. What you believe or do not believe does not come into it. If you choose to work for the parish he would not earn anything more-- the parish "employs" him, not you. We do not live in church accommodation, and my oh does not receive any pay for the work he does, but I see nothing wrong with him earning a wage if he worked there full time.


And finally--Torry, I am not a sinner. I may (and often do) do things that I feel are wrong. I am bad tempered, I can lie and upset people. I feel guilt about these things and usually fret about it for ages until I put it right. But I am not a sinner.

I think heretolearn is right when they say that torrys view represent what many people think. I am sure that those in torrys church would not welcome my oh, but then what my oh preaches---tolerance, inclusiveness and acceptance may not be acceptable to torry.

churchrat

Person_one wrote: »

The thing is though, unless all the people who are so anti gay because God says its wrong also eschew shellfish and pork, only ever wear clothes made of one fabric and stay away from menstruating women, they're being hypocritical.

There are lots of very strict rules in the bible that today's Christians feel free to ignore, and if you're using the 'Jesus superseded all that more unpleasant stuff' excuse, then he didn't actually have much to say about gay relationships and was generally a bit of a liberal come one come all easy going type by all accounts.

I think that there are over 160 commandments in the bible. I know for an absolute fact that my oh does not follow most of them. Does anyone? Can a person only be called a christian if they follow all the rules, or just some of them?

I would really like to know what other people think.

churchrat

John_3:16

No one is perfect. In fact ask any Christian and they will say they are far from perfect and often feel the pressure off that, we will often do things that are unchristian (sinfull). However to believe in Christ is to know that that sin is dealt with by Christs death. This does not mean go off and do whatever you want as there is no problem. As Christians you constantly strive to do what would please Christ however we so often fail. But thank God for his gift of Christ.

Newly_retired

Love God
Love your neighbour.
Yes, these are open to interpretation.
But which of us can say we have always kept both of these commandments?
"Let him/she who is without sin cast the first stone" comes to mind.
We are all sinners.

System

I think when all is said and done its a matter of not judging people for what they believe in but allowing God room to move in our hearts.

Personally, i wouldnt be happy in a church where the ministors wife was not a christian but i dont wish to judge those who would.

I think that there are over 160 commandments in the bible. I know for an absolute fact that my oh does not follow most of them. Does anyone?

I do believe if you believe in the bible you cant pick and choose the best bits and omit the rest.

I suppose thats why i am sitting on the fence here.

Nice to see John 3:16 has joined us. 'For God so loved the world he sent his only begotton son'. Amen!

churchrat

Judi wrote: »

I think when all is said and done its a matter of not judging people for what they believe in but allowing God room to move in our hearts.

Personally, i wouldnt be happy in a church where the ministors wife was not a christian but i dont wish to judge those who would.



I do believe if you believe in the bible you cant pick and choose the best bits and omit the rest.

I suppose thats why i am sitting on the fence here.

Nice to see John 3:16 has joined us. 'For God so loved the world he sent his only begotton son'. Amen!

May I ask it what way you are sitting on the fence?
And do you follow all the commandments?

thanks

Torry_Quine

churchrat wrote: »

In mainstream churches, there is no submission thing. Even the spouses that are christian do not always have any part in the running of the church. Many choose to keep their live separate from the parish, particularly if they also have demanding jobs or other interests.



And finally--Torry, I am not a sinner. I may (and often do) do things that I feel are wrong. I am bad tempered, I can lie and upset people. I feel guilt about these things and usually fret about it for ages until I put it right. But I am not a sinner.

I think heretolearn is right when they say that torrys view represent what many people think. I am sure that those in torrys church would not welcome my oh, but then what my oh preaches---tolerance, inclusiveness and acceptance may not be acceptable to torry.

Submission is entirely a seperate issue from whether the spouse is involved.

You say that you do things such as being bad tempered or upsetting people those are sins. Sin is just another word for doing wrong which means that it includes all of us whether we identify with the word or not.

Tolerance, inclusiveness and acceptance are preached regularly as they are basic tenents of faith. However that doesn't mean allowing anything.

churchrat wrote: »

I think that there are over 160 commandments in the bible. I know for an absolute fact that my oh does not follow most of them. Does anyone? Can a person only be called a christian if they follow all the rules, or just some of them?

I would really like to know what other people think.

churchrat

Obviously not but a lot of what you call commandments were just decided by the Jewish leaders of the day and not actually from God. That said being a Christian is about following Christ and trying your very best, no-one is ever able to follow everything all the time.

System

May I ask it what way you are sitting on the fence?
And do you follow all the commandments?

I am sitting on the fence as i am what is termed 'backslidden'. I havent heard a church service for 12 years (about). I dont have my daily 'Quiet Time' with God.

Do i follow all the commandments? I believe in them yes, i aspire to them yes but i am mortal and i have my failings.... Thats where God comes in and ive neglected him for so long.

churchrat

Torry_Quine wrote: »

Submission is entirely a seperate issue from whether the spouse is involved.

(

---

I was talking about submission as heretolearn described it. And yes, submission in the sense that st paul described would mean a woman should not speak, pray or teach in a church and be entirely submissive to her husband)

You say that you do things such as being bad tempered or upsetting people those are sins. Sin is just another word for doing wrong which means that it includes all of us whether we identify with the word or not.

(----How can I commit a sin when I do not believe in the concept? You are a sinner because you believe in sin.)


Tolerance, inclusiveness and acceptance are preached regularly as they are basic tenents of faith. However that doesn't mean allowing anything.

( ----Of course not--anything that harms another human being is dreadful thing. I hope I have not given the impression that my oh leads some sort of free-for-all. If I have I apologise, but I dont think your idea of Christianity is very inclusive or accepting)



Obviously not but a lot of what you call commandments were just decided by the Jewish leaders of the day and not actually from God.


(

---

OH Goodness me!!!!! I could not agree with you more!!!! And how exactly do you know the difference? Who tells you that something was just a rule of the day and can be ignored? How do you know that they are right? Can anyone decide?)

That said being a Christian is about following Christ and trying your very best, no-one is ever able to follow everything all the time.

( --- No, but if they are going to follow some rules should you not try and follow all of them? Keep your head covered in church, not speak out loud in church, not allow women to teach men about faith, that sort of thing--I must admit I am assuming you are a woman, apologies if wrong. Jesus said nothing about scarves, women speaking in church or homosexuality. Basically he just said believe in god, follow me and love one another. He didnt seem to think this message needed anything else. St Paul said a lot, as if he thought that Jesus didnt say everything he should have done. Which bits of his letters do you choose to follow and which to ignore? There are some christian groups which do keep all of St Pauls teaching, do you?)

I have no idea if Jesus existed or not. if he did then I do not think he was the son of god. But the message the man preached--love one another--is a good rule to live by. It is such a shame that it has been distorted over the years by men intent on their own agenda.

I have absolutely no idea how to do the multi quote thing, or how to include other peoples quotes on the same page. Apologies. also--how do you put in different colours etc? Computers and me dont get on.!!!!!

EDIT--- just wanted to add--thankyou for this discussion. At times it is so easy just to sink back into what is already accepted and not actually think about the lives we lead.