MSE News: Jobless get walloped when buying insurance

TraderDJ

dunstonh wrote: »

Have you factored for the anti-fraud checks that will increase premiums on those that change their details? i.e. get a quote, go back and change occupation and the system picks up the change and many providers will increase their premium above the norm due to increased risk of fraud.

Why can I still get my original prices (with new quotes so not a 'saved' quote), despite generating hundreds of different quotes??

If change of details like you say would affect me I'd stop doing it else my premium would be sky high by the time I pick one - yet I haven't had a penny difference yet when returning to the original details, and changing details is lowering some of my quotes :huh:

Former_MSE_Dan

Have you factored for the anti-fraud checks that will increase premiums on those that change their details? i.e. get a quote, go back and change occupation and the system picks up the change and many providers will increase their premium above the norm due to increased risk of fraud.

Yes, that is what I think is regrettable. That someone could go from 20 years solid employment today, to unemployed tomorrow, and that would increase premiums so dramatically.

Averaging out the risk is always going to disproportionately affect those people who don't match the profile of the group they are in, but the huge jump for unemployed seems excessive.

mikey72

dunstonh wrote: »

Have you factored for the anti-fraud checks that will increase premiums on those that change their details? i.e. get a quote, go back and change occupation and the system picks up the change and many providers will increase their premium above the norm due to increased risk of fraud.

So, if MSE Dan gets a quote for employed, at £x, switches to umemployed, and it goes up to £y, if he switches back to employed, and gets £x again, do we agree it's safe to assume the anti fraud hasn't increased the premium from x to y, as it's now back at x, so the only change will be for being umemployed? And to further check, obtaining a similar quote, for a slightly different name and address, but starting unemployed, then changing to employed, so any anti fraud would make being employed worse if any? Then further confirming by going back to unemployed?

dunstonh

mikey72 wrote: »

So, if MSE Dan gets a quote for employed, at £x, switches to umemployed, and it goes up to £y, if he switches back to employed, and gets £x again, do we agree it's safe to assume the anti fraud hasn't increased the premium from x to y, as it's now back at x, so the only change will be for being umemployed? And to further check, obtaining a similar quote, for a slightly different name and address, but starting unemployed, then changing to employed, so any anti fraud would make being employed worse if any? Then further confirming by going back to unemployed?

Yes. If it returned to the original premium when details changed back then it hasnt fallen foul of anti-fraud increases.

Yes, that is what I think is regrettable. That someone could go from 20 years solid employment today, to unemployed tomorrow, and that would increase premiums so dramatically.

Dan, I think you missed my intention there. The comparison sites and providers have anti-fraud checks that can see premiums rise if changes are made to certain questions. Lets say you put in financial adviser to begin with and got a price. Then you went back and changed it to unemployed. You may not just be getting an increase due to occupation change but also because the details were changed. If you then changed it back to financial adviser, if the premium didnt return to the original amount, but increased, then you can see the anti-fraud increase has played a part. If that was the case, then your increase spotted could be 80% due to occupation and 20% due to fraud concerns (or whatever x% applies - used examples only)

Voyager2002

dunstonh wrote: »

Or the unemployed, as a collective average, should commit less fraud than employed people. Then the insurers wouldnt have to increase their prices.

A bitter pill for the honest unemployed but insurance is priced on statistics.

Dunsonh, do you actually know whether the claims record supports the difference in pricing? I doubt it, but it would be interesting to see the evidence.

One could also argue that the kinds of people (and hence their claims record) who were unemployed during the years when the economy was healthy are significantly different from many people who are unemployed at the moment. To say nothing of differences between those recently out of work and people who are long-term unemployed.

westv

dunstonh wrote: »

Have you factored for the anti-fraud checks that will increase premiums on those that change their details? i.e. get a quote, go back and change occupation and the system picks up the change and many providers will increase their premium above the norm due to increased risk of fraud.

Nonsense. Any anti fruad system doesn't come in until the offer is accepted and payment made.
All insurance sites allow amendments to quotes. It allows for input errors etc.

Arg

Calling it anti fraud is such a joke when what it's really a price obscuring mechanism.

dunstonh

Nonsense. Any anti fruad system doesn't come in until the offer is accepted and payment made.

You are wrong. It is also a subject that has appeared in this forum a few times.

All insurance sites allow amendments to quotes. It allows for input errors etc.

Never said they didnt. However, the software can check certain questions and load the premium or even reject.

Calling it anti fraud is such a joke when what it's really a price obscuring mechanism.

I called it anti-fraud. I don't know what each provider/platform calls theirs. However, it is aimed at those committing fraud by penalising those that change certain questions in a certain way.

westv

dunstonh wrote: »

I called it anti-fraud. I don't know what each provider/platform calls theirs. However, it is aimed at those committing fraud by penalising those that change certain questions in a certain way.

Well how does that explain quotes staying the same when someone changes their occupation and then changes it back again? You cannot commit fraud merely by changing quotation answers and not proceeding with the purchase.

vaio

Ahh but this is not ordinary fraud, this is insurance company fraud