1.6 HDi

frankfish

Evening

My wife has a Xsara Picasso with the 1.6 HDi engine we have noticed an oily smell in the car when we stop. I lifted the bonnet and removed the plastic cover with 1.6 HDi on it, below are 4 sets of steel pipes and associated wiring. Am I correct in thinking these are the injectors ?

One of them looks to be leaking, had some oil around it and was dirtier than the others. I had a quick look online and it seemed to suggest that a seal had failed, looks like a common issue with these engines.

Does anybody have any ideas on the likely cost to replace the seal, at a reliable back street garage ? Should we get all 4 replaced or just the faulty one ?

Thanks

FF

forgotmyname

Leaking oil or diesel?

Hours work? £40 + parts?

If its a common rail engine then it probably wont have seals. The pipe will be flared and seals itself. Rubber seals wont stand the pressure.

frankfish

Thanks for that, I think it is oil but will check. Had a google and the results seem to suggest that the seal includes a copper washer, so hopefully not too expensive

benham3160

I'm more inclined to believe it's diesel, this could be the all to common leaking injector seals that seems to blight these engines (especially the Ford versions weirdly.)

It's not an expensive job to have rectified, (it involves coca-cola oddly) but it makes a hell of a mess of the top of the engine.

Do you have a slight "puff-puff" noise coming from the top of the engine?

Regards,
Andy

TadleyBaggie

I had the same engine in a Picasso a while ago, I also had leaking injectors (luckily it was still under warranty...just). All I noticed was "puff-puff" noise.

mwbrown

we had this on our previous car (a 2006 Ford Fusion), was advised that it was cheaper to get them all done whilst the car was in bits rather than just replace the one seal that was leaking - the seals werent expensive.

We got quoted 3 hours labour for doing the job (at £39/hour + Parts), we decided to get the glow plugs changed at the same time as it was easier to get them done (we got charged 30mins labour and about £40ish for the glow plugs).

We had problems initially, that the garage couldnt get them to seal properly (even after keeping the car overnight to clean the area (and soak to remove the gunge!). It eventually took them 5 and a half days in total to get the job completed - they also had to replace the fuel pipe - which im led to believe is about £100+ for the part from ford.... along with a few other clips that mysteriously went missing after we collected the car, and then another breather pipe mysteriously got damaged!!

Il give the garage their dues - they only charged us the quoted 3.5 hours labour at £39, along with the seals, and glow plug costs which came to about £256 inc VAT.... they even had the decency to pay for us to get a hire car for one day when we couldnt arrange anyother means for my wife to get to work etc... which cost £45 (it was a last minute booking, and all we could get was a little Fiat 500 from thrifty)... so all told, pleased with the way the garage dealt with the problem.

Im guessing they were pleased to see the back of the car (im guessing it probably cost them to fix it with the parts they had to replace Free of charge!!!). Everytime i went past the garage and the mechanics saw the car im guessing they thought "oh, no he's coming back....". Got rid of the car - nothing to do with the job they did, but some idiot decided to do £800 worth of damage to the rear quarter panel and bumper and didnt stop...... so decided to get rid rather than spend more and more money on it.

Mike

benham3160

mwbrown wrote: »

we had this on our previous car (a 2006 Ford Fusion), was advised that it was cheaper to get them all done whilst the car was in bits rather than just replace the one seal that was leaking - the seals werent expensive.

We got quoted 3 hours labour for doing the job (at £39/hour + Parts), we decided to get the glow plugs changed at the same time as it was easier to get them done (we got charged 30mins labour and about £40ish for the glow plugs).

We had problems initially, that the garage couldnt get them to seal properly (even after keeping the car overnight to clean the area (and soak to remove the gunge!). It eventually took them 5 and a half days in total to get the job completed - they also had to replace the fuel pipe - which im led to believe is about £100+ for the part from ford.... along with a few other clips that mysteriously went missing after we collected the car, and then another breather pipe mysteriously got damaged!!

Il give the garage their dues - they only charged us the quoted 3.5 hours labour at £39, along with the seals, and glow plug costs which came to about £256 inc VAT.... they even had the decency to pay for us to get a hire car for one day when we couldnt arrange anyother means for my wife to get to work etc... which cost £45 (it was a last minute booking, and all we could get was a little Fiat 500 from thrifty)... so all told, pleased with the way the garage dealt with the problem.

Im guessing they were pleased to see the back of the car (im guessing it probably cost them to fix it with the parts they had to replace Free of charge!!!). Everytime i went past the garage and the mechanics saw the car im guessing they thought "oh, no he's coming back....". Got rid of the car - nothing to do with the job they did, but some idiot decided to do £800 worth of damage to the rear quarter panel and bumper and didnt stop...... so decided to get rid rather than spend more and more money on it.

Mike

As I said above, Coca-Cola is the key, it's the only thing that'll remove the tar, never needed more than overnight in my experience, commercial degreasers take days though. Sounds like the garage didn't have the correct tool to clean up the injector seats either...... Don't go back there.

Don't have the glow plugs changed again on a modern diesel, that was £40 wasted, these engines use them so rarely it's not worth bothering with them, also a modern DI diesel will not suffer from anywhere near the fuel condensation issues that an old IDI engine will, I reckon 50% of the plugs I randomly test on modern diesels are U/S and the owner hasn't noticed over years. The ones on my DI diesel engine are all dead (or nearly dead) and I had no troubles starting my car during the -10 centrigrade over the winter.

I had this argument with somebody who couldn't believe you could start a COLD diesel engine without plugs, and I won quite convincingly....... Maybe cranked for two seconds longer....

Regards,
Andy

GolfBravo

It sounds like the usual HDI injector seal problem.

You need to replace two parts: copper injector seal (£2.58 each) and plastic injector protector (£3.05 each) that goes on top of the copper seal, both available from your friendly Peugeot/Citroen stealer. Plus a can of coke.

It can be a DIY job (helped a friend replace one on a 2005 Focus only last month), but it's probably best to take to an independent garage.

At best you're looking at 1 hour labour, and most of it is just cleaning the diesel crap out before fitting the new injector seal. In worst case scenario they may have to spend a couple of hours thoroughly cleaning it.

So you better have it looked at ASAP - the sooner, the cheaper.

frankfish

Thanks for the comments, booked into a local garage on Monday, so will try and limit the use before then. He had a quick look yesterday and confirmed he thought it was the seal. he reckoned a couple of hours but did warn that sometimes they could be a pain to remove

vax2002

It may have run out of fuel at sometime, the break down guys crack open an injector to get them started back up without flattening the jump battery.
Try a small nip with a spanner, if that does not work, then it will need a new seal, its tricky as it has to be tightened whilst some cranks the engine to get the air out of the line.

PS think your mechanic is a bit of a tooth sucker, its the easiest nut on the engine to remove, its soaked in soft oil, it will take longer to take the plastic cover off.
Stand and watch him do the job !

sootytorques

Our previous car a Ford fusion with 1.4 tdci had injector seals replaced by ford main dealer, they informed us a common problem and injectors will always need coding.