Age Verification Policy when shopping with partner/child

fluffnutter

maninthestreet wrote: »

There is a legal obligation to verify the age of someone attempting to buy alcohol iy they appear to be under the age of 21.
Exactly how old are you?

I don't think this is true.

You are committing a crime if you:

1. Attempt to buy alcohol if you're under 18
2. Attempt to buy alcohol for someone under 18 (if you're over 18)
3. Sell alcohol to someone under 18

There are other laws too but they're not particularly relevant here.

Shops are paranoid that they'll be unwittingly colluding with No. 2 above by selling to someone who's clearly over 18 but accompanied by a minor (even a babe in arms).

Hence they have devised a number of their own policies, one widespread one being that they'll refuse the sale unless everyone in the party has ID. This is what happened to you.

They're not breaking the law selling to your husband. He's not breaking the law by buying alcohol for both of you (provided you are actually over 18!). Over zealous shop policy errs on the side of caution and we have this ridiculous situation that you found yourself in.

It's not the law that's preventing your husband buying alcohol - it's shop policy. Legally they can refuse anyone anything so whatever way you look at it, you're on the soft drinks tonight.

European_Citizen

fluffnutter wrote: »

I don't think this is true.

It's not the law that's preventing your husband buying alcohol - it's shop policy. Legally they can refuse anyone anything so whatever way you look at it, you're on the soft drinks tonight.

Thanks! I thought it might be the shop's policy but I didn't find it on their website.

Soft drinks, me? Nah, we went to another store and he bought some drinks while I waited outside

browneyedbazzi

European_Citizen wrote: »

I'm 29. I forgot to mention that this happened in Scotland, where they operate 'challenge 25'. This is what the law says:

"steps are to be taken to establish the age of a person attempting to buy alcohol on the premises (“the customer”) if it appears to the person selling the alcohol that the customer may be less than 25 years of age (or such older age as may be specified in the policy)." (Alcohol etc (Scotland) Act 2010).

My question is: if I am not attempting to buy alcohol, then why should I be asked for an ID? Some posters have mentioned that it would be an offense to sell alcohol to somebody whom they suspect might give it to a minor: I would be grateful for a link with more info, if possible. I always thought that only buying alcohol and giving it to a minor was an offense but it seems I was wrong.

Thank you for all your replies!

Sorry, I gave some wrong info because I had wrongly assumed you were in England.

There are a lot more offences in the Licensing (Scotland) Act than just selling alcohol to someone underage (most are very similar to those in the act for England and Wales). They can be found via this link:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2005/16/part/8

maninthestreet

European_Citizen wrote: »

Thanks! I thought it might be the shop's policy but I didn't find it on their website.

Soft drinks, me? Nah, we went to another store and he bought some drinks while I waited outside

As you've discovered, it's easy to defeat these silly shop 'policies'.

Azari

fluffnutter wrote: »

I don't think this is true.

You are committing a crime if you:

1. Attempt to buy alcohol if you're under 18
2. Attempt to buy alcohol for someone under 18 (if you're over 18)
3. Sell alcohol to someone under 18

There are other laws too but they're not particularly relevant here.

Shops are paranoid that they'll be unwittingly colluding with No. 2 above by selling to someone who's clearly over 18 but accompanied by a minor (even a babe in arms).

Hence they have devised a number of their own policies, one widespread one being that they'll refuse the sale unless everyone in the party has ID. This is what happened to you.

They're not breaking the law selling to your husband. He's not breaking the law by buying alcohol for both of you (provided you are actually over 18!). Over zealous shop policy errs on the side of caution and we have this ridiculous situation that you found yourself in.

It's not the law that's preventing your husband buying alcohol - it's shop policy. Legally they can refuse anyone anything so whatever way you look at it, you're on the soft drinks tonight.

I'm a little confused here since it is not, in general, illegal for under 18's to drink alcohol. Do you know what it is that shops have to avoid in order not to break the law? Is it selling alcohol to someone acting as an agent for an under 18? (i.e. where they purchase the alcohol and pass it directly to the under 18 and the under 18 bears the whole cost.)

fluffnutter

Azari wrote: »

I'm a little confused here since it is not, in general, illegal for under 18's to drink alcohol. Do you know what it is that shops have to avoid in order not to break the law? Is it selling alcohol to someone acting as an agent for an under 18? (i.e. where they purchase the alcohol and pass it directly to the under 18 and the under 18 bears the whole cost.)

Indeed. I think clarification might have come had I posted all the laws, but essentially, yes, if you buy in a shop with the sole intention of passing directly to a minor you're breaking the law.

If you buy in a pub for a 17 year old who's having a meal, this is OK.

If your 6 year old drinks some of your wine whilst you're at home (provided this wine wasn't specifically bought for said 6 year old) then again, you're OK.

TBH, it's not the best set of laws we have. Bit contradictory IMO

browneyedbazzi

Azari wrote: »

I'm a little confused here since it is not, in general, illegal for under 18's to drink alcohol. Do you know what it is that shops have to avoid in order not to break the law? Is it selling alcohol to someone acting as an agent for an under 18? (i.e. where they purchase the alcohol and pass it directly to the under 18 and the under 18 bears the whole cost.)

If someone buys alcohol in a shop on behalf of someone under 18 they commit and offence - the shop isn't committing an offence unless they allow the alcohol to be given to the under 18 on the premises.

Many shops still make an effort to combat proxy sales even though they aren't the ones committing the offence - this is so that they can show they are responsible retailers which will help them if they ever end up in court or before a committee/licensing board reviewing their premises licence.

Azari

fluffnutter wrote: »

Indeed. I think clarification might have come had I posted all the laws, but essentially, yes, if you buy in a shop with the sole intention of passing directly to a minor you're breaking the law.

If you buy in a pub for a 17 year old who's having a meal, this is OK.

If your 6 year old drinks some of your wine whilst you're at home (provided this wine wasn't specifically bought for said 6 year old) then again, you're OK.

TBH, it's not the best set of laws we have. Bit contradictory IMO

Thanks, fluffnutter, that's roughly what I thought.

I agree that the laws are a bit of a mess.

It's the fairly draconian penalties that the retailer and serving assistant could potentially suffer that cause some of them to interpret their responsibilities in a similarly draconian manner.

fluffnutter

Azari wrote: »

Thanks, fluffnutter, that's roughly what I thought.

I agree that the laws are a bit of a mess.

It's the fairly draconian penalties that the retailer and serving assistant could potentially suffer that cause some of them to interpret their responsibilities in a similarly draconian manner.

I agree, although interestingly I'm not sure that the retailer is committing an offence by (unknowingly) selling to someone over 18 who's buying for a minor, rather it's the buyer who's breaking the law. The only law that I believe applies to the seller is that they mustn't sell to a minor.

This is why I think some of their policies are overzealous. Happy to be corrected though.

Storck

A lot of the so called store policies have been dictated by the local licensing authorities that insist that policies are in place to protect children. They ask what policies are in place when issuing the premises license. Once this has been issued those policies become part of the license and therefore any breach of those would be a breach of the premises license.