3.5 yr old bad bedtime behaviour

Margaret52129

Hi, can anyone suggest how my DD can sort out my DGS bedtime nightmare. As the titles says, he's 3 1/2 years old and will not go to bed quietly. He shares a room with a younger brother and over the past few months to try and get some order she has changed the routine so that younger one goes to bed first, then older one l/2 hour later when little one asleep. But what happens is that he plays up so much that he wakes little one up and they laugh/cry and it takes about 1-2 hours to settle them back down. In the morning the older one is whingey and clingy and tired but he has to go to nursery so cannot sleep in. Little one can go back to bed for a nap to catch up on his sleep.

They used to go to bed at the same time, but they just messed around so much to the extent that older one used to climb into little one's cot and undress him and throw all the bedclothes out! Sounds funny, but in reality it isn't. Every 3-4 nights he's so exhausted he will have a 'normal' night when he goes to bed and sleeps. When that happens he's a little star in the morning. She's also given him an afternoon nap when he's so tired that he's naughty (usually Saturday/Sunday afternoons).

He's also wet the bed a couple of times because he's so tired when he's finally asleep that he's not waking up if he needs to go. He's been dry about 1-1.1/2 years.

She has tried all sorts - bath, warm milk, charts/stickers, special mummy/daddy time, 1/2 hour of dvd choice, games but nothing seems to work. They also have 12 week old baby who, fortunately, doesn't seem to be affected by the disruption, whether this is the underlying cause we're not so sure, but he has to learn to live with him! They don't show favourites on any of the children.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

mummyroysof3

my first suggestion would be if little one could be moved to another room so doesnt get woke up but not sure that would be possible would it?

Just_Plain_Jane

I would consider putting the eldest to bed first to see what happens. It may be that he is instigating the messing around with the younger child. If it doesn't work then you can always explore other avenues.

mildred1978

Just_Plain_Jane wrote: »

I would consider putting the eldest to bed first to see what happens. It may be that he is instigating the messing around with the younger child. If it doesn't work then you can always explore other avenues.

That's what I would do too.

Sounds like he's acting up from the arrival of the baby to me.

sassyblue

Put the elder one to bed first AND a bit earlier if neccesary. Keep up with the reward charts and/or the threat to withdraw treats and toys if he plays up.

Good luck, you'll need to be consistent and it might work then revert for a while but you'll get there in the end. Bedtime playing up is horrible isn't it? x

Chakani

How long has this been a problem? And have they always shared a room?

At 3 1/2, my DS understands that if he messes about at bedtime, there will be negative consequences (he also shares with his little sister, who is 1). To be honest, the negative consequence is most often not having a bedtime story here, which is usually enough, but that is because we've already been through the bedtime silliness, and he knows that I will follow through with anything I threaten.

Does the new baby/tiredness/lack of sleep/disrupted routine mean that the parents aren't being as consistent/persistent as normal? It takes three year olds about a second to figure it out if they are. Is he being more challenging in other areas as well, or is it confined to bedtime?

I would approach it by trying to balance positive and negative consequences of behaviour - i.e. try to build in something special that he loves, be it a dvd snuggled up with mummy, or a story, or a special (quiet) game that is reserved for bedtime. If he is a good boy, there is time for that. If he is naughty, then it's time for bed straight away.

After bedtime, any silliness I would react by being very boring, put back to bed (look up the back to bed technique - I think it's Supernanny), little speaking, no eye contact. If the little one needs calming or re-dressing, take him out of the room to do it (again, quietly, in a darkened room, no eye contact, minimal speaking - you don't want to plant the idea in his head that it's all fun and games).

It might take a bit of persistence, and he could get worse before he gets better - google extinction bursts and behaviour.

GreenQueen

How dark is their bedroom? With my DD, she could sleep anywhere until she was 3ish, and then suddenly realised one summer that it was still light outside when I put her to bed - so it can't be bedtime, can it?:j

A blackout blind can work wonders if this is part of the problem. We thought we were past that, but this year (now she's 6), she's been struggling to get to sleep again - last weekend we got a new blackout blind and bedtimes have been much better.

GQ

Margaret52129

mummyroysof3 wrote: »

my first suggestion would be if little one could be moved to another room so doesnt get woke up but not sure that would be possible would it?

Not possible as it's a 3 bedroom and baby has just moved into smallest - and it is very small - otherwise this is one I would have recommended to her. Thanks.

Margaret52129

Just_Plain_Jane wrote: »

I would consider putting the eldest to bed first to see what happens. It may be that he is instigating the messing around with the younger child. If it doesn't work then you can always explore other avenues.

sassyblue wrote: »

Put the elder one to bed first AND a bit earlier if neccesary. Keep up with the reward charts and/or the threat to withdraw treats and toys if he plays up.

Good luck, you'll need to be consistent and it might work then revert for a while but you'll get there in the end. Bedtime playing up is horrible isn't it? x

Thanks, I'll recommend this one to her, although I think she's tried putting him to bed first, but the little one is a little devil also and doesn't know how to go to bed quietly! The reward charts/threat to withdraw treats/toys doesn't work, this was an earlier threat (before new baby) but I think he forgets it and doesn't worry that he's not allowed tv/toys etc. next day! He says he will be good, knows that if he gets stickers he'll get a treat, but it doesn't register with him, he doesn't seem to be bothered about it! She did this with his toilet training and it worked a treat!

mildred1978

Margaret52129 wrote: »

Not possible as it's a 3 bedroom and baby has just moved into smallest - and it is very small - otherwise this is one I would have recommended to her. Thanks.

Isn't advice to keep baby in with parents until 6 months?

They could then put the youngest in the smaller room and alleviate the problem.

Sounds like they are making life harder for themselves.

mummyroysof3

mildred1978 wrote: »

Isn't advice to keep baby in with parents until 6 months?

They could then put the youngest in the smaller room and alleviate the problem.

Sounds like they are making life harder for themselves.

i would have said 1 in parents room might solve the problem tbh..our youngest stayed in our room a lot longer before we put him in other room with his brother