opinions please, is she right?

maoam

Hi all

I joined under a different name in case some one knows me

My good friend has been having major issues with her ex with CSA and access

The nrp has been asked to pay an amount by the CSA but is only paying a fraction a DOE is hopefully being done soon

Access was sorted and IMO was reasonable as the nrp lives 300 miles away and has been given 1 or 2 weeks every school holiday it was him who moved so far away

Now the NRP lives with his new partner and her 5 children, they also have 1 together, they live in a 4 bedroom house

When my friends 3 children had there first visit they came back and told mum they slept on the floor, on a quilt!

This is the question, she asked me today did i think she was being unreasonable as she told the dad that unless he paid her at least the recent arrears, and out of this she would buy ready beds/blowup beds for them at his house, then the children would not be going on there next visit in 4 weeks, he sid she was being very unreasonable and he would go to the courts ect... for access.

Now in my eyes she is not denying him access, but wants to know her children have something comfortable to sleep on whilst there, she did ask about him buying them, he says he has no spare money but that the quilt option is ok! She does not really have the money to buy them but has said she will get them out of money he gives her for the children and leave them with him, but as he has no intention of paying then there is no spare money for these items

I did not think her request was unreasonable and she has tried hard to keep the children in contact with dad, and keeping CSA seperate, but she feels she cant let this one go

The children are aged 2 4 6 the younger one does not even want to go again, and the other 2 dont really seem that bothered, but she knows its important to try and keep contact up

Any way other opinions would be appriciated, as she does feel slightly guilty at the way she has gone about ensuring her children have something to sleep on

thanks

NickyBo_2

I think she is absolutely right! I wouldn't ever have my children sleeping on the floor. Can I ask, does the Dad have a bed? If so, why isn't he sleeping on the floor and letting the children sleep in the bed? Surely any decent father would do that, or maybe that's the point?!

maoam

I did point this out to her but he shares his bed!

Since dad left the older 2 have been bed wetting, he has also used this as an excuse when she asked could they not top and tail, when they have been here i used black bin bags over the mattress, its a simple easy solution, well i thought it was!

maoam

I think the other issue is as well, there not going for 1 or 2 nights its for 1 or 2 weeks!

coolcait

Tough one for me to answer. My kids LOVE sleeping on the floor! It's one of their holiday 'treats', and they huff when it's time to go back to sleeping in a bed...

So, I don't automatically see it as 'wrong' to have children sleep on the floor.

However, if your friend's children don't like it, and if the other children in the household are given beds to sleep in, then I think there's a problem there.

That said, your friend would be denying the father access if she refused to let the children go to stay with him.

If she calls his bluff, and lets him take her to court, how confident is she that she would win - with the argument you have put forward?

If part of the issue is - supposedly - to do with the fact that two of the children wet the bed, wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper to buy some of those 'Dri-Nite' type pants? Then they could share a bed without any problems.

Which also takes away one of the father's arguments for not arranging sleeping facilities which take his children's needs and wishes into account.

maoam

I know some children like sleeping on the floor on occasions, mum did try to pass it off as fun to them, the eldest tho was not realy impressed plus the fact she is very embarrassed about her wetting the bed so wearing the dry-nights may not go down very well but i will suggest it, the eldest also told mum that she did not much like the sleeping arrangements nd she did not know if she wanted to go for a week maybe just a night which is not really possible due to the traveling, when mum told dad this he called her a lier and said i will only believe you if eldest tells me, which she did not want to do as she is quite shy and timid

Mum also told dad that it was a waste of time and money going to court as she felt her request were not unreasonable and any court may also see that plus make him provide suitable sleeping arrangements any way

The other problem she had was on the next visit dad is working all week, the new partner will look after them, mum agreed to this being ok if maybe nannie or his sister could be arround some of the time so the children did not feel un comfortable, she has no qualms about them being with his new partner especially as they have a new sibling now

There is obviously so much more to the storie but mum has gone out of her way on more than one occasion to ensure visits, so much as even vacating her own home for a week so he could stay there with them

juliep123

Hi
Difficult one !
I'd try to leave the maintenance arrears out of it is she can.A judge may regard this as blackmail although i fully understand why she feels this way.
Is there no one that she could borrow some blow up beds from at all?
TBH it's good that they will be a part of their dad's new family and that he still wants to see them.
HTH
Jules

BitterAndTwisted

It's important that the children are able to maintain a proper relationship with their father regardless of the sleeping arrangements. To make threats about withdrawing access about something so trivial is a dangerous game to be playing and the issue about the maintenance payments through CSA should be left to the CSA to sort out, using that as an excuse is a very nasty thing to do. Children and their feelings should not be used in such a ruthless and cruel way. Your friend should be ashamed of herself. If the children are unhappy abut going this needs to be discussed and a sensible solution reached by mutual agreement with no strings attached.

kingfisherblue

If he does pay some of the arears, it is possible that the CSA will see this as willingness on his part to pay up, and they could stop the DEO arrangements that they are currently setting up. Is your friend willing to risk this? It could take months or even years to get a DEO in place if this happens.

I think your friend needs to encourage the children to wear pull ups overnight, maybe for a few nights before they are due to go to their dad's so that they get used to them. They also need to know what to do regarding disposal afterwards - something as simple as not knowing this can be upsetting for a child.

Not having beds is understandable, but your friend has suggested a suitable solution with the airbeds. They don't have to be expensive, the link below shows single airbeds in Argos for £9.99 each. can she save or borrow the £30 that she would need?

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/6341268/Trail/searchtext%3EAIRBED.htm

Seanymph

Bitterand twisted is bang on right.

When the children are with him he is the parent - and unless he's coming into her house and telling her what she is doing right and wrong your friend has no say about his house.

That said my concern would be a week when he wasn't there.

The ONLY conversation I would be having is to offer to rearrange the week to a week when he is available to be with them, as they go to see him and if he isn't there the visit is pointless.

THAT week I'd consider not sending them for - oh well, they can come for the week you are at home - and that I suspect he won't take her to court for.

But sleeping on the floor? She can raise it with him, but I don't think she should prevent them seeing him for it no.

And she should NEVER use access as a hammer to beat maintenance out of him. NEVER. The two are seperate. The children have a right to their father, and a relationship with him (however awful that will turn out to be) despite his non payment.

It's awful being a mum doing the right thing and dealing with an ex who doesn't (believe me I could write the damned book!) - but she has to keep doing the right thing - mine are teenagers now, and I can only stress that the kids DO work it out eventually. Thank goodness I can stand hand on heart every time he tries to attack me and what happened between us and they know I did what was right and his bitterness and focus on his new g/f is apparent to them to.

It's not comfortable for anyone, but she cannot allow how she feels t influence their contact with him.

But, like I say, the week he isn't there mine wouldn't be going - I'd offer a different week, or offer for it only to be a week.

maoam

Thank you all for your honest opinions

She has never used the CSA payments as a weapon before and as i pointed out she does feel guilty, i am going to talk to her today over the pull ups, try to get the oldest to understand she can keep it secret from all the other children, no one needs to know she is wearing them but dad an the new girlfriend

The link from argos is exactly what she is looking at but she really doesnt have the spare money at the moment as 2 of the children have just had birthdays she had posted on her local free site but nothing as of yet

As for dad not being there the week they are going she did ask why had he not booked that week off work he said he couldnt get that particular week but the new girlfriend offered to help so what was the problem, and even though it was planned at the begining of the year he cant allways book his holidays for a particular week, which was fair enough but she thought that the bigger issue was that they had somewhere to sleep as nannie and auntie had agreed to also help out

I know from personal experience that the children will make up there own mind in time on wheather they want to visit or not if they find the experience bad, he has said though that unless they all come he will not take any off them which is unfair as the youngest is very very reluctant to leave mum, so there is already a chance that when he turns up the youngest will refuse to go, plus the fact its been 5 months since he last saw them, and she is only 2, this was down to him not her but she does try to maintain phone contact which does not allways work

Can any one offer futher advice on coaxing the children in to going i think the dry nites is a fantastic idea and will deffinatly be tried

thanks