woodworm in floorboards on survey.... help please!!!

mamamoi

Hi All,

We got the great news today that our mortgage has been approved for our FTB house :j:j.

However..... on the valuation report it is noted that 'a specialised timber inspection should be undertaken due to evidence of a wood boring bettle infestation to flooring. all recommended treatment to be undertaken'.

This caused a bit of a panic, so we called the seller (private sale) and she said that they had it treated 5 years ago when they had new bathroom and kitchen done. Felt a bit better after that, but have since called the surveyor for more info as we are still waiting to recieve our home buyers report. He said that he couldn't see or smell any signs of the wood being treated. He noticed it when he was down in the cellar, but said that due to insulation a lot of the floorboards were hidden or not easily accesible, but from what he could see it looked like quite a wide spread infestation.

The seller said she will look for the treatment paperwork but her husband died a couple of months ago and he dealt with all the housey stuff so she's not sure where it all is.

I'm in a bit of a panic as to what to do next..... we love this house and the area and don't want to lose it, but also dont want a massive expense of replacing all floorboards and joists etc.

I don't want to get a company in to tell me that there is still an infestation just to drum up business for themselves.... is there some sort of timber inspector that will do an independant inspection. Any ideas on how much this will cost? I try to avoid using chemicals whenever possible and don't like the thought of the chemicals that some companies use for the woodworm treatment as we have 2 young girls, especailly after reading the 'ask jeff' website.

Any thoughts, advice and suggestions are most welcome, thanks in advance x

mamamoi

*bump* in case anyone can offer advice?

vivster

I don't think it has to be anything to panic about. We had the same, and I was initially a bit worried, despite the sellers' assurances that they'd had the woodworm treated. We found an independent specialist timber surveyor who quoted £140, and for an extra £20 he did damp as well. He gave me a verbal briefing after his inspection and emailed me his report the following day. His report was really helpful (he even included photos of everything). No active woodworm problem, although some other small issues.

Google for an independent timber surveyor local to you.

G_M

OK - the surveyor saw some woodworm holes in those areas he could access.

But were the holes 'active'? He's not an expert so does not know.

Maybe the worm were there years ago. The owners had it treated 5 years ago, the worm were killed.... but the holes are of course still there. They do not miraculously fill themselves!

The difficulty you have is hat o do now. If you instruct a 'woodworm company' to do a specialist survey, they will want some business out of it, so I can 99% guarantee they will say the same: "Evidence of woodworm, holes found in xx/yy location. Recommend treatment of the first/second florr whatever." Plus of course a quote for their company to do the work.

The reality is that woodworm in property is very rare. Wood-boring insects are everywhere, in every garden, park, wood, street.But they will only eat wood that is 'munchable' ie damp. If the wood in the property is dry, they'll stay outside in the garden!

If the joists/floorboards get damp, yes, beetle might find it attractive, but once the wood is either treated, or dried out, they'll soon go elsewhere to find more attractive woody homes.

Leaving behind, of course, holes they've already made which will get reported by surveyors and cause panic to house buyers!

More here.

renovation_man

The most common wood boring insect in the UK is Common furniture beetle,they normally lay their eggs on the end of a floor board as the eggs will stay on the rough edge and they can bore horizontally through the floorboard. They can stay internal for several years it's quite easy to tell if woodworm boreholes are active, just look into the borehole and see if there is any sawdust (Frass) evident. If there is frass the property would require treatment although mainly for mortgage reasons. It is highly unlikely that it would cause any problems unless it was a very severe infestation and as stated infest damp buildings swifter.

propertyman

Basements are usually unheated and poorly ventilated making them a likely source of attack.

What your risk is that as an FTB, with likely less capital to spare, if the woodworm have munched on out of sight, however low the chances might be , and face a large repair bill.

I suggest that you

1: Speak to the owner and suggest that she needs to go through the paperwork.

2: Look for an inspection service that is not a contractor selling their bucket of "woodworm begone".

3: Get at least two quotes and negotiate the price.

Of course whether you do the work is then up to you, and I bet my last jaffa cake( in today's ration of 3), once you reduce the offer, as in 1, the paper work will suddenly materialise....

mamamoi

thanks for all the great advice.... feel a bit better about things now. Will arrange an independant timber specialist to go have a look asap. Only concern is if they have to move carpets and insulation and leave a big mess? Will have to clarify what they actually do.

vivster

I don't think it leaves a big mess or is particularly intrusive. The biggest headache from my point of view was arranging access, finding a time convenient for both the vendor and the surveyor and having to use the estate agent as a go-between.

propertyman

mamamoi wrote: »

thanks for all the great advice.... feel a bit better about things now. Will arrange an independant timber specialist to go have a look asap. Only concern is if they have to move carpets and insulation and leave a big mess? Will have to clarify what they actually do.

That is an excellent question.

What you do not want is a report that says

We inspected and we conclude X from the areas we could see. We were not permitted to move furniture of floor coverings and therefore cannot report.

Ideally you want to expose everything so discuss the scope with the surveyor and try and negotiate with the vendor accordingly.There are no rules it's a question of how much they want to sell and the level of competition, as to how accommodating they end up being and how far you can push.

It is then a question of negotiating, the worse you have to assume in the absence of an inspection the more you argue for a reduction, subject to the above.

Often this result in someone being less evasive or casual and finding the paperwork you need.

mamamoi

Update on this... sorry it's long!

Had the independant timber survey done on fri and just reading through the report or should I say horror story now. It has just cost us another £180 for this timber survey although it didnt really tell us much more than what the HBR told us as he didnt really remove insulation, pull back carpets etc.

I hardly slept last night for worrying about whether to carry on with purchase or pull out as they 'suspect' woodworm is still active and has done considerable damage.

"Although we could see no live beetles or larva associated with common furniture beetle at time of visit there are many such dead beetles on the cellar floor. There is no guarantee relating to any insecticide treatment and it would be reasonable to say that the beetles have landed upon the cellar floor since the last time it was swept out. This being the case combined with the heavy levels of insect activity we are of the opinion that if we had to make a guess as to whether the infestation was active or not we have a strong suspicion that the infestation is likely to be recently active if not currently active to at least some degree.

In the first instance the client could remove all of the under-floor insulation to properly inspect the area for damage. Whilst patch repairs my suffice the client is advised to budget for full ground floor timber replacement with all associated costs until proved otherwise.

The associated costs are indeed likely to be considerable. The kitchen units and appliances are built on the floor and the under-floor heating would have to be lifted along with the tiles. In addition it would be preferable to lay ducts within the conservatory floor sufficient to provide cross ventilation of the cellar void / increase sub floor ventilation with ducted vents through the cavity wall etc. All replacement timber should be pre-treated with preservative and any cut ends treated with three brush coats of boron paste. It would also be preferable to have the floor joists supported from stainless steel joist hangers rather than built into the cavity wall as this should isolate the wood from dampness and is preferable to wrapping joist ends in dpc material as the latter on occasion can sweat within the joist pocket and lead to premature decay. "

it gets worse:

Inspection of ground floor timbers was severely limited due to the many obstructions described above. Where sampled the moisture content of the floor joists where they entered the external cavity walls was found to be chronically high with readings of 100% full scale deflection being obtained. Although we could not see any obvious decay from the every limited sampling there is little doubt that if the moisture content of the bearing ends of the ground floor timbers remains at such a chronic level then decay and eventual collapse of the floors will be inevitable. Accordingly the client is placed on notice of the high risk of both wet and more serious dry rot occurring if they have not done so already within areas unable to be accessed at this visit.

Primary reasons for the decay are sub floor ventilation being reduced by the conservatory solid floor to the rear which should have had ducted sub floor vents laid within it to provide cross ventilation to the main house floors and also it is suspected that debris and wet insulation within cavity walls are feeding moisture into the vulnerable end grain of the floor joists.

Problem is that this is all in the cellar and they could only see a small section of wood due to insulation tied to the cellar ceiling.... Above is the kitchen & conservatory where there it is laid with ceramic tiled flooring with underfloor heating, so they can't view it from above either. If we have to replace the floor & joists the whole kitchen / dining room & conservatory floor would have to come up along with all the lovely fitted kitchen which was one of the main selling features to us. I am so exhausted and stressed by a number of things that are going on right now in several areas of my life that I just don't know what to do for the best with this house???? We love the house and the location and it ticks so many boxes, but is this too much of a risk and too much work and too much money? Will this work really need doing in the next few years or is this all just precautionary? We got a great deal on the house as it is a private sale and she wants to move quickly, so I'm not sure if she will negociate on price anymore? We are only planning to stay in the area for 3-5 years, so we have to be aware that it may affect the re-sale value if we don't have to do the work during our time there.

Also cavity wall ties were highlighted as possibly needing doing in the near future along with underfelting of roof, plus other bits and pieces.

Any advice will be really appreciated. Sorry it's long and full of waffle but I'm really stressed about this.

andy.m_2

cavity wall ties is a common find, as is sarking or under roof felt, so dont worry overly about that.
No doubt they picked up that the ties can degrade and lead to the wall bowing out.
Another good one is the ridge tiles may need repointing, these are general caveats that a surveyor will drop in to cover themselves.

Two things let you down though in this instance:

1) you love the house, emotional buy-in can be damaging
2) She wants to move quickly, maybe because the floor's about to cave in?!

It's up to you if you proceed or not, and if you do, whether you get the work done or not and hope that your buyer next time round doesnt pick up on it.

Our house that we are buying needs the ridge tiles repointing, some evidence of infestation in the loft and a bit of a high damp reading in the wall by the front door.
We are still proceeding because these are easy fixes and we went in at a price that had an allowance for these and other items.
Had we gone back to renegotiate they would have declined because we all knew up front that there was work needed doing and our offer was quite low based on assumptions only some of which came to fruition.