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School deposits
Comments
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The first child starts in September and most people by this time will have sorted their arrangements.
Most independent schools insist on a term's notice which will not occur in this case.0 -
The OP has said that they have given a terms notice for the 1st child and 2 1/2 years notice for the 2nd child.The first child starts in September and most people by this time will have sorted their arrangements.
Most independent schools insist on a term's notice which will not occur in this case.
I don't doubt that of the 1st £350.00 could be kept, it is the 2nd £350.00 that could be deemed as unfair.Always get a Qualified opinion - My qualifications are that I am OLD and GRUMPY:p:p0 -
Then nothing but an admistration fee can be charged. The school can not charge for loss of profit only net costs. Those net costs being the costs to replace the student, if no student can be found within 2 1/2 years then I would suggest that the school has no loss to claim as it is no worse a position.
But in that 2 1/2 years any new pupil would be an additional pupil to the OP's. Its only a replacement pupil when the whole class is filled.
The whole student fees wouldn't be profit, a significant proportion would go towards running costs. Therefore if they are undersubcribed then the fact that the OP's student has not attended will have cost the school money.This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
That wouldn't stand up at all, otherwise all consequential loss claims could include claims for future compunded losses from the date of the breach to .... well, the end of the world!But in that 2 1/2 years any new pupil would be an additional pupil to the OP's. Its only a replacement pupil when the whole class is filled.
The whole student fees wouldn't be profit, a significant proportion would go towards running costs. Therefore if they are undersubcribed then the fact that the OP's student has not attended will have cost the school money.Always get a Qualified opinion - My qualifications are that I am OLD and GRUMPY:p:p0 -
Basically OP, if the school can not provide a reasonable breakdown of costs to the school that covers the £700.00 (and they can not just make it up as they go along) then the witholding of your money couild be seen as a financial penalty under common law which in turn would be seen as an unfair contractual term.
The following link is dated Nov 2011 and is about deposits for nursery places but would be relevant in your own case (check out the link within this article for the office of fair trading's guidance notes sections 4 & 5)
http://www.bllaw.co.uk/sectors/health_and_care/childrens_day_nurseries/news_and_updates/contracts_with_parents.aspx
Great find DCodd, it spells it out quite succinctly.The greater danger, for most of us, lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low and achieving our mark0 -
This seems to be the relevant legislation"Alternatively, the prepayment may be set low enough that it merely reflectsprice, otherwise it is liable to be seen as a disguised penalty"
the ordinary expenses necessarily entailed for the supplier. A genuine
'deposit'– which is a reservation fee not an advance payment – can quite
legitimately be kept in full, as payment for the reservation. But of course
such a deposit will not normally be more than a small percentage of the
It sounds like if the £350 is a small enough percentage of the whole payment then the school are entitled to keep it. So for instance if the fee for the year was only £500 it would be unfair for the deposit to be so high. However if the fee for the year was say £3500 then £350 could be considered a fair deposit.
But seeing as the school has already recognised the "deposit" as a part payment for the school fees, that is kind of irrelevant.The greater danger, for most of us, lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low and achieving our mark0 -
it doesn't say reservation fee ONLY though.
It says the deposit can't be an advance payment of the fees. However I think thats a grey area as the school could argue that it is a reservation fee, however if you take up the place as a goodwill gesture they take the reservation fee off the school fee price.
I would actually like the OP to take this all the way to see what actually happens.
Err....yes it does:A genuine 'deposit'– which is a reservation fee not an advance paymentThe greater danger, for most of us, lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low and achieving our mark0 -
But I've seen nothing that says a penalty clause is illegal? The only thing that appears to be illegal is an unfair penalty clause.
On a side note it may not even be a deposit as alot of private schools charge a "reservation fee". This may be what the OP has paid. It's all speculation though without more information
From the OP:...the deposit would be taken off the first terms fees once they started school properly...The greater danger, for most of us, lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low and achieving our mark0 -
This is the penalty clause legislation
Simply because a clause is stated to be a penalty clause is not determinative that it is so. Penalty clauses are oppressive in nature, and serve the purpose of deterring the party labouring under the threat of their imposition from breaching the contract. Several tests have been developed to cater for the various forms that contractual penalties may take, and the factors that may be taken into account may include:
1. whether the sum payable is extravagant when compared to the greatest loss that would be suffered by the innocent party
2. the sum payable is greater than the sum that ought to have been paid
3. when a single lump sum is payable, for any number of breaches of contract and those breaches include both serious and trivial damage. To avoid a term of a contract being determined to be a liquidated damages clause, one size does not fit all.
The measure of the calculation should reflect the claimant’s net loss. Sums otherwise payable under a contract for performance are not penalty clauses as there is no increase in the sums payable under the contract (although the consequences may be oppressive) and sums payable in circumstances that are not connected to a breach are also not properly characterised as liquidated damages or penalty clauses.
It seems like this falls under '1'
"whether the sum payable is extravagant when compared to the greatest loss that would be suffered by the innocent party"
The greatest loss the innocent party can suffer here is the loss of the full fees for that pupil for that term. Therefore it depends how much of the school fees £350 is. I doubt it is that extravagant compared to the full total
Sorry, but the greatest loss is what has been incurred to that point. Any further expenses are classed as damages.The greater danger, for most of us, lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low and achieving our mark0 -
Sorry I'm not going to get into an argument with you about this. I have enough trouble with azari and monglex so I can't be bothered to start an argument with you! I've seen on other threads that you're quite difficult and when I start arguing I don't stop! Needless to say I don't agree with any of your posts
This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0
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